Introduction and Welcome

[00:00:00]

CA: Welcome. Welcome one. Welcome all. Welcome to the Catholic Experience. I am your host, The Catholic Adventure. This is recorded Monday. Well, there’s a trick to that. It is Monday, July 15th, in the year of Our Lord 2024. I still say thank you, Catholic Church. But I’ve got something special on board for you today.

So the recording date is a little wonky. Let’s fade that music out and get right into it. 

Special Guest: John Kramer, Master Lego Builder

CA: Today, I’ve got something special for you. I had a, an amazing conversation with a man named John Kramer, master Lego builder, extraordinary. And we talked about his, uh, his, he’s, he’s a man with disability. He has a mild form of cerebral palsy and he has a couple of other issues that we’ll get into in the interview.

John Kramer’s Faith and Evangelization Through Lego

CA: Um, and he uses his, his, his talents to evangelize. His, his main thing is it’s very interesting. He builds [00:01:00] churches out of Legos. He builds, they’re not, you know, these little bitty shack looking Lego buildings. They’re rather big Lego buildings. And, uh, and he makes churches out of those Lego bricks. He does a couple of other things that I don’t want to drop the, uh, drop the whole detail now we’ll get into it in the conversation, but John is a very, very nice guy.

He’s so normal. Which, which to me is very important. He’s just, he’s very connectable. I guess is a better way to put that. Very connectable. Very common man. Um, he’s got a beautiful heart. And he, he gets very deep. And it’s, it was, one of my reactions is, it was so lovely to see someone so normal, so connectable, who goes so deep.

 Folks, when I tell you that this is the era of saints, this is the kind of thing I’m talking about. Will John be [00:02:00] canonized a saint one day? I have no idea. But what I can tell you is the man has the heart and mind of a saint. And he is sure not without his suffering. We’ll get into that in the interview.

Let me tell you, this interview was more of a conversation that ran about an hour and a half. It was supposed to be 20 minutes. It ran an hour and a half. So he was very interesting. Um, interesting to talk to. I shaved it down. Don’t worry. I’m not gonna I’m not gonna you know hit you with a an hour and a half two hour episode this time like I did last time, but I shaved it down to about a 40 minute conversation and It’s it’s loaded with nuggets goes deep keeps it real.

It was a really great interview I’m gonna roll that for you in a second first. 

New Series Announcement: Obtaining and Maintaining Peace

CA: I wanted to make an announcement I’m going to be doing a new series exclusively on locals. whether you’re free or paid, you will have access to this series. I don’t know what it’s going to be called, but it’s [00:03:00] going to be about basically obtaining and maintaining peace, obtaining peace and maintaining it once you, once you have it, I’m going to go through it with some scripture, with, uh, with a book by father, I think his name is Jacques Philippe.

I’m going to do a lot of excerpts and, and, and take my, uh, I guess the curriculum from there and, uh, some, some practical tips and examples, some personal experiences, stuff like that. How do we maintain, how do we obtain and maintain peace? Peace is very important. The first, you might’ve seen me put this up on socials, but the first thing that Jesus says to the apostles after the resurrection is peace be with you.

He says peace or peace be with you a lot. I know that was kind of a thing for Jews, that’s kind of how they greeted each other. But we see it almost selectively included in the Gospels. Like it’s intentional. That Jesus means it in a particular way here, and here, and here. We say peace be with you at Mass, the [00:04:00] opening greeting of the Mass is, you know, the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all, and we respond in with your spirit.

There’s a lot of peace. In the Catholic lexicon, in the, in the experience of Catholic learning, knowledge, reading scripture, and so on. But do we really know what that means? Do we really understand its importance? Interior peace. We think of peace as, you know, the absence of conflict in the world. But what about interior peace?

The saints have said it’s the pathway to holiness. So how do we get it? And once we have it, how do we maintain it? That is going to be a special series I’m going to do on, um, on Locals. And it’s going to be exclusively on Locals. One of the reasons is because I want people to join my Locals, I’m not going to lie to you.

But that is actually not the main reason. The main reason is, I want it separate, I want the series completely isolated from the craziness of social media. [00:05:00] So I probably won’t be posting a lot about it on social media. I may post one or two clips here or there on social media, but I mainly want this isolated from the insanity of social media.

For obvious reasons, it’s a podcast series about peace. That’s number one. Number two is I want to use some of the interaction , and community features of locals for this series. I think this series is, is, is perfect for using some of those features.

 This is going to be free for everybody. There is some exclusive content that I do for paid members for five bucks a month. 

Whether you’re free or paid, you will have access to this series. The paid members may get something a little extra. I haven’t worked that out yet, but the series itself will be available to everybody on my locals community, even if you’re just a free member.

Sign up for my Locals at CatholicExperience. Locals. com. If you haven’t done so, I don’t know [00:06:00] why. You must be crazy. CatholicExperience. Locals. com. I’ll also place the link in this episode’s description. CatholicExperience. Locals. com. I’m going to start that series this week, by the way.

 I’ve been posting a lot of stuff to locals, if you sign up for a free account on locals, paid even better, but even signed up for free, you’re going to see there’s already stuff there that you can watch or listen to or read.

And then that series on peace is going to be started this week catholicExperience. Locals. com. Again, this is available to free and paid members of my locals. Okay. 

Technical Note on Interview Audio

CA: Now a little note about this interview. Um, I cleaned up the audio a lot, but I have to tell you there was, there was a faint clicking. It’s pretty faint, but you will definitely, well, you’ll definitely hear it if you’re listening with earphones or headphones, you may not hear it.

If you’re listening to it over a standard speaker, [00:07:00] it was a lot worse. And I can tell you after you’re listening to it for a minute or two, you, your brain kind of turns it off. You almost don’t even hear it at all. Okay, take it from me because I just got done editing an hour and a half Of that episode and I can tell you I almost forgot that.

I really did forget that it was there actually Okay, so just to let you know, it’s there. It was coming from some kind of feedback or something from john’s, uh microphone setup No big deal. I’m, just letting you know. It’s it is there It is not a mistake. It was worse You And I can tell you it’s, it’s pretty faint.

It doesn’t really get in the way, and if you endure it for just a minute or two, you’ll see you, you can kind of deal with it. Your brain kind of turns it off. Okay? That faint little clicking, it, it again, it’s, it’s very faint. It’s, it’s, it, I don’t think it’ll make you crazy unless you’ve got ears like a dog and you can hear that kind of sound from miles away.

Then it might make your, make your head explode. And I’m sorry for that. [00:08:00] Before your head explodes, please sign up at locals so that I at least have your membership. Now we’re going to get into the interview again. John’s a very interesting guy. Um, please keep him and his work in your prayers.

He is in the Saginaw, Michigan, Saginaw, Michigan area. And he’s trying very hard to get more parishes to bring him in, to show his work and to have conversation about the intersection between disability and faith and boy, does he have a lot to say about that? Uh, it was really wonderful listening to him and talking with him.

Uh, but if you’re nearby his area, it doesn’t have to be specifically in that area or in his exact diocese. But if you’re nearby. And you take a liking to John Kramer, maybe introduce the episode or John himself to, uh, your parish leadership and see if your parish wants to have him over, you know, see if your parish wants to, uh, you know, [00:09:00] coordinate with them and arrange something to have him bring, bring his display over and talk about it and, and stuff like that.

All right. 

Interview with John Kramer Begins

CA: Now I keep saying without further ado, but this time I mean it without further ado, here’s my interview with John Kramer.

Again, Catholic adventure here. I’m joined by all around nice guy and Lego master builder. Go ahead and introduce yourself. 

John Kramer: This is Casey AWCM from Saginaw. Also known as J. M. Kramer of the Lego Church Project, Faith and Disability. 

CA: Wow, this guy’s a pro. I just learned today, folks, that, uh, he has an amateur radio background.

He has a license and everything. You can find him on, um, X, by the way, at KC8. Number eight, Casey eight WZM plug your Facebook real quick. Cause I know I’ll forget 

John Kramer: the Facebook page is Lego church project. And there’s also a sub stack called praying at the bricks. Ooh, 

CA: I’m going to check that out as you, as you’re talking.

So And what’s your real name again? Your real first name or [00:10:00] whatever you want to be called. 

John Kramer: I go by, I’m John Kramer, but I also go by J. M. sometimes. So people will see me either, I’m either one name or the other. 

CA: Okay. Because my real name is His Majesty, , King James I. Um, but I feel uncomfortable making people call me that.

So I just go by Catholic Adventurer. Um, so you’re a really interesting guy. I ran into you. I think I saw. An interview that you were on. I think that’s how I found your account. You know, the, the, the funny thing is I’ve been trying to get him on the show folks for a couple of months that I hit him up and then like disaster struck my entire life and I hadn’t had time to do like regular podcasts sure didn’t have time to do interviews.

There were like three interviews up to that point that I wanted to do. Um, and since then I’ve only had time to do one, there were like two, two people who I really had priority. One. Um, I did, uh, a couple of weeks ago, and now the other priority [00:11:00] is, um, our friend here, John, John Kramer. So, tell us about what you do.

You’re, you’re what I would consider a master Lego builder, and you work this into, this is an evangelization tool for you. Tell us about that. Okay. 

John Kramer: Well, what the Lego church project is, is every year I take about a month and a half or so to build a giant parish of my own design using Legos, all freehand.

And it has the typical exterior and full interior complete with over 300 mini figures sitting inside. And the reason why I do this, And how it turns into the evangelization is, I’ve got a mild form of cerebral palsy, which kind of throws life into a little bit of a chaos sometimes. Sure, sure. But what I do is, I’m showing no matter what child or disability you face, God can still use your talents.

Mm hmm. And so this is a [00:12:00] mission that I live with, uh, because of my own challenges, the own quirks that I have here and there, uh, because of combination of the mobility issues, uh, the emotional issues, sometimes life tends to throw you a curve balls and you just have to learn how to deal with it. So, uh, 

CA: with 

John Kramer: my work, it allows me to explore faith and disability.

And it also allows me to have important conversations about what it means to, to live with challenges. Since I do this every day, and I’m a faithful Catholic, uh, who is, uh, blessed in many ways. 

CA: I want to talk about that a little bit. I want to talk about your, your, your work and, and what it involves. I would like to talk about, um, like your faith, your faith journey and your faith experience.

so much. So when did you get the, how did you’ve been doing this 20, 25 years? You [00:13:00] said I couldn’t believe I wasn’t aware you were doing it so long. What gave you this idea? 

John Kramer: Well, at its core is when I was growing up, uh, the church was the foundation of our lives. So my parents were heavily involved in activities in the church.

Uh, I was an altar server myself. I also did, uh, Did stints in the, uh, different choirs that they had at the time. Uh, and as growing up, I was building these rudimentary buildings. My friends were building the most elaborate spaceships you can imagine. Me, not so much, but so over time it eventually turned into, I had an opportunity to do a display, uh, and that kind of became my season one.

And then when it really kind of started taking off was for season, 

CA: was it a church then your first display? Okay. Yeah, 

John Kramer: it was it was at a place that my parents and I were attending a catholic place. Okay They’re a very dedicated group of people and really kind of cemented my ideas On what it [00:14:00]means for a community helping each other out Um, so when I started doing that display, I did that a couple different times But it was season four.

When I went back to my home parish, I grew up in and started doing the yearly display with them around Christmas time, Christmas, Advent time. And one that’s been going on the longest for over 20 years now. And then over as the years moved on, it kind of started to develop into this ministry where I focused on the issues related to disability and faith, uh, because of, obviously because of the challenges that I have.

It allows me the opportunity to explore, uh, with everyone, what does it mean to live with a disability? How does your faith impact that? Uh, for me in particular, I have found great comfort, uh, in the faith, um, because I can, I can focus a lot of my energies, a lot of the struggles that I have, [00:15:00] I can put before the Lord.

And things will usually work out, even if I can’t necessarily see the path in front of me at the time. 

CA: Wow. That’s so important for people to hear, you know, that, uh, it’s important for me to hear, because sometimes, not sometimes, often, uh, my faith is, um, see, faith is a composite of, Knowledge and belief, right?

I’d mix those two. But also trust, and I often struggle with the trust part, especially lately, you know, like past year being out of work, I struggle with the trust part. And faith, like what you just talked about, you know, that even if you can’t see the path forward, you find a lot of peace in knowing it’ll, it’ll all work out.

You know, so important for people to hear, me included. 

John Kramer: Well, you have to figure, I’ve got a lot of chronic issues, and sometimes they flare up at the worst times. I’ve got the, I’ve got tinnitus, [00:16:00] which is an issue of the ears. I’ve got a condition of the eyes, referred to as visual snow, which can play a little bit of havoc with what I see and how I see it.

Um, that’s part of the reason why I no longer drive because I don’t feel comfortable being behind the wheel. Right. I can ride a trike daytime. I’ve got open area around me, no big deal. But even in the nighttime, I’m not too fond of being out unless I have to. 

CA: Now, is there anyone who can drive you to these events when they happen, you know, in the evening or at night?

Or it’s pretty much all on you? 

John Kramer: Usually, about 95 percent of the time, if it’s church related, it’d be me. And if it’s like a whole idea of obligation, uh, if someone’s going, I can usually get a ride, uh, and also for mass. And when I do the displays, uh, when I go to visit parishes, the parishes know up front that if they want to have me out, they just have to give me a ride.

They have 

CA: to provide the transportation. 

John Kramer: Yeah, and because I don’t charge for this. 

CA: Right 

John Kramer: money money. I don’t do this for money. [00:17:00] How’s the receptivity been? 

CA: I mean do local parishes have you over regularly do or parishes and other diocese? Do they have you over 

John Kramer: it kind of? It’s kind of hit and miss There are trying to find the right connections is always difficult because a lot of people don’t fully understand What I’m doing or why I’m doing it.

What do you want? 

CA: Pastors and directors to know about what goes, goes into, because you, you mentioned that they don’t see what goes into it. I would, I would guess they don’t see the, the importance of it to, I guess, evangelization or edification of others. What do you want pastors and directors and I guess people in general to know about what goes into this, why it’s important and why it has some value at, uh, to, to be displayed at a parish and, and talked about 

John Kramer: when you see him at work and you look inside.

You see everything. 

CA: Mm hmm. 

John Kramer: You see people with visible [00:18:00] disabilities, 

CA: I noticed that there were some people, I think there was like a disabled section or not so much of a disabled, 

John Kramer: not so much of a specific section per se, 

CA: just, just people in wheelchairs, 

John Kramer: wheelchairs, I have them up front, I have them up front more for visibility because people will tend to see things closer up front and they won’t, you know, If I have someone with a visible disability in the back, they tend not to get seen as easily.

And I want to really kind of bring that issue 

CA: up. 

John Kramer: I’ve got service dogs in there when it comes to, uh, priests and others who are looking for. Ways to share the faith and encourage the young people as well, but it also encourages the older generation. It brings back something, uh, to them as well. I’m also with the project being mostly full on purpose.

It is, what do 

CA: you mean mostly full? What does that mean? 

John Kramer: Means that I’ve got a couple of sections on the balcony. I just don’t have enough [00:19:00] minifigures for yet. 

CA: Oh, okay. I like, they’re like cathedrals. These churches you build, 

John Kramer: that’s kind of where the idea comes from, but they have a wraparound, uh, balcony.

It’s kind of in a U shape, so you’ve got the main floor and then you’ve got the floor above it. And part of that is for technical, because that allows me to run a second string of lights underneath. So, it allows me the opportunity to highlight things inside the others, otherwise people would have a chance to miss.

CA: Which is actually, that’s kind of the point of how church lighting was originally designed to call your attention to specific things. One of the things, this is kind of off topic, but not, but it’s related. One of the things that annoys me about how churches are either redesigned or the lighting is redone or new churches being built is they’ve completely either abandoned or they’re not of that.

The purpose of the lighting and where the light pictures are and how they, how they’re supposed to, they’re supposed to call attention to specific things. Whereas now, churches are often [00:20:00]uniformly lit, and especially old church, old churches are not built to be uniformly lit. They’re built to have little coves, little segments, little things, little sacred spaces, and the lighting is supposed to.

I guess accommodate and work with that, you know, so it’s it’s interesting that uh, You do something similar in the lighting in your lego churches 

John Kramer: But going back to the to why would priests want to have me out? Is I can also Give short presentations On faith and disability, I’ve been given an opportunity where I’ve done, uh, presentations where they’ve, uh, where both adults and kids have asked me questions, uh, not just from, from the aspect of how things got built, but why did I do it in a specific way?

Right. Why is the floor like this? Why, why is it people standing there? So there’s always a lot of room for me to expand what I’m trying to do with the work. Right. Right. Uh, because I’m trying to [00:21:00] show, and once again, I’m showing no matter what challenge you face, God can still use your talents. And I think that that’s something that, uh, is lacking.

I think it’s 

CA: important for people to, to get this message too, because everyone has some kind of perceived disability. There are real disabilities. People with handicaps, people with blindness, which I guess technically is a handicap, but you know, um, and then there are perceived disabilities, uh, you know, people who want to do things that they’re just not good at.

Um, like, you know, using myself for an example, um, I jokingly on the podcast, I’m always calling myself very, very stupid. I say jokingly. But it’s true. I’m really not, you know, I wish I could be one of the great scholars of the church, but I don’t at all have a mind to even be an adequate scholar. There’s a very narrow set of things that [00:22:00] I am actually really good at.

So I don’t have a physical disability, but I have a perceived one. I have an affective disability in that the things that I’m passionate about, I’m not adequate at any of them except for a very narrow set of things. And so I focus my attention on those things, you know, and I excel, I think, I excel in them.

Just as you have physical disabilities, and the message I feel like you’re trying to send is, this doesn’t mean you’re less able than anyone else. You’re able to do things differently. You have challenges and you have gifts. 

John Kramer: Well, I often say that some people consider their challenges a disability, but some people may, may not see it the same way.

And that’s part of the reason why I use challenges and disabilities interchangeably. 

CA: Gotcha. 

John Kramer: Uh, particularly, particularly in the, in the mission statement, because you never know, you know, everyone has some kind of challenge. My disabilities would fall under the category of mostly invisible, [00:23:00] unless you were to actually get to know me.

You wouldn’t realize off the surface that there were anything majorly wrong, unless you tried to see me walk a room. Right, right, right. And then the balance issue would become, uh, apparent. So, so my mobility is a little compromised here and there. Uh, but you know, you learn to overcome. You learn to adapt.

And that’s something that I’ve had to do. You learn to adapt. And I think that that’s one of the things, like you said, we do things differently. Because we have to. 

CA: So someone with a disability, you find ways to stay very active. 

John Kramer: That’s on purpose. 

CA: Yeah, of course. 

John Kramer: The great, the greatest desire that I have.

Is to be able to serve the Lord using my talents. Right. Does that mean that I’m volunteering with the amateur radio stuff? Does that mean that I’m doing stuff with the, uh, project? Or does it mean that I’ve decided to take on some kind of writing project for the morning? Mm hmm. Because I also do, I also do a very nice blog.

CA: I think the important, I’m sorry to cut you off. I think the important thing too is that you’re a [00:24:00] living witness. To the gospel, to the goodness of God, things like that, because even if you’re doing like the weather spots, you know, the people you’re working around, people you’re working with, who know that you’re a faithful Catholic, maybe because of the things you say, maybe because you say something like, yeah, I was at church yesterday, or whatever.

Some clue, some hint, they know that you’re a Catholic, they know that you, that you believe in God, and they also know that you have a disability. And even without, see, there you go, you have a cross around your neck. So without even saying much, you’re a living witness to really effectively to the gospel.

You’re a living witness to the gospel. People are seeing this guy with so much to complain about, you know, who knows, you know, to what extent that goes on their head, this guy was so much to complain about with problems that, that I don’t have challenges that. I don’t have, and this guy’s very faithful to God, and it doesn’t seem, doesn’t seem like it’s, it’s fake.

It seems like it’s sincere and that it’s transformed his heart, you know, or that it shapes his heart. Because I have to tell you, you, you really come off like a really nice guy, [00:25:00] like a really decent, just lovely human being, you know? And I, I, I believe that God through the faith has a lot to do with that kind of formation of a person.

John Kramer: The faith is the core of who I am. Without Christ, none of this would be possible. I consider myself just a humble builder. When I’m sitting down, when I’m sitting down, when I’m beginning to, when I’m getting ready to start this coming season’s project, I am sitting down with a blank canvas. I’m sitting down.

Navigating Life’s Uncertainties

John Kramer: I don’t know where the Lord is going to lead me for this year. No idea. I can always have ideas that I want to, that I want to try, but sometimes the Lord will lead me in a different direction. Right. Oh, yeah. And what happens is for me, that becomes a time of prayer. 

Praying at the Bricks: A Unique Approach

John Kramer: The reason why I call my newsletter praying at the bricks is because that’s what I’m doing.

I’m praying. 

CA: Cool [00:26:00] name, by the 

John Kramer: way, praying, literally praying at the bricks because that’s what I’m doing. I’m praying with my hands. I am taking everything going on in my life, whether it is from family members who are dealing with medical crisis stuff going on in the church, either on a broad level or on the local level.

Uh, stuff related to the disabilities or affairs for a productive season where I can be the, where I can be, do the most good. I take everything and I lay that in the bricks as I’m building. Despite the challenges that I have, despite the challenges that the project kind of brings about, I love doing it.

Right. I enjoy it because it allows me to explore the faith. Uh, I’m always putting my mom in prayer because she’s got a lot of health issues. 

CA: Poor thing. 

John Kramer: You know what, she’s had a good life and she has done a lot with it, so, uh, Well, thank God. So, I think 

Embracing Suffering as a Pathway to God

CA: that’s, that’s the important [00:27:00] thing is that, um, and I don’t say this as someone who has mastered it, but using your suffering as a pathway to go deeper with God.

Amen. I don’t say that as somebody who has mastered it. I already said I’ve, you know, I, I, I’m still trying to get through a lot of trust issues that I have of my own, you know, but, but I know that it’s a real thing, you know, using one’s own suffering as, as a channel, a pathway to the depths of God, the depths, you know, who he is deeply.

John Kramer: The one thing that I have learned is you got two choices. You can either let the challenges, the chronic issues that you face. You can let it derail you from the faith. You can let it damage your relationship with God. You can blame, uh, you can bemoan, you can cry and say, God, why did you curse me like this?[00:28:00]

Or you can just accept it and embrace it and rely on God to get you through the internal storms. And that’s something that I had to learn and I think that’s something that everyone that’s got some kind of chronic issue has to learn at some point. Uh, I, I certainly have days when I’m, uh, on top of the world, on top of the ship.

And then there are days when I’m under and below decks holding on for dear life. 

CA: Right. But the one thing Sometimes, sometimes the ship is the Titanic. Yeah. 

John Kramer: It, it, it can be, but you know what though? God is there for me. Through the storms, right? Even if I can’t necessarily feel the presence. I know he’s there, 

CA: you know, that’s So important I was thinking about that actually just this morning at mass um the idea of [00:29:00] Believing that god is present And following him without seeing him.

That’s what it was believing. God is present and following him without seeing him Um Which is hard to do, um, especially, I think, as you know, my last podcast, I was talking about spiritual maturity, and that’s one of the things about spiritual maturation, is that sometimes God makes it easy. Sometimes he’s, he’s holding you, carrying you, walking with you, and, and you can feel that, right?

Because the journey is easy, and it’s sensual, you know, it uplifts you emotionally, and, and then at a point, I think everyone, if they surrender themselves to it, okay, I think everyone on the spiritual journey goes through this at various points in their life, where they just feel like they don’t feel God’s presence at all, you know?

And it takes a certain personality, a certain constitution, a certain spirit [00:30:00] to choose to follow God without seeing Him, flying blindly, to choose it. And then to do it, because really choosing it is hard, but by comparison, it’s easy, but then doing it, that’s hard, man. That’s hard. And I’ve had my periods where I’ve failed at that and periods where I’ve done better and worse, but it’s hard.

And, you know, that’s kind of what you’re talking about. 

John Kramer: We’ve all had moments like that. The way that I kind of see it is testing our resolve. 

Testing Faith and Resolve

CA: Damn bro, you’re deep. 

John Kramer: Testing our resolve. The, the challenges I have, particularly when it comes to the project. Testing my resolve. Can I remain faithful? Can I keep doing this?

Even when it feels like everything’s stacked against me. 

Dealing with ‘Why Me’ Moments

CA: Do you ever have these God, why me moments? Like, God, I’m, I’m angry at you. Why do you keep letting this happen to me or why this and this, or, you know, why can’t you just cut me some slack? Do you ever have those why me moments and what, how do you deal with them?

John Kramer: Sometimes I do, but I [00:31:00] realized pretty quickly that it is not productive. 

CA: Mm hmm. That’s for sure. 

John Kramer: It does not, it does not produce any kind of good fruit. Right. It can be difficult to navigate those moments. Right. There’s always going to be struggles of some kind, but to be perfectly honest, I just don’t see the point of it.

Yeah. I could easily blame, ask God, well, why did you give me cerebral palsy? Why did you give me this? What is the point? I’m thankful for what I have. Right. I thankful. I’m thankful for the connections that I have made praying for new doors to open up. Uh, there comes a point in your prayer time where.

Where you’re reaching a moment where you’re more or less crying about the situation instead of praying about it. That’s something that I’ve been learning in the last couple of months. Is, this is what’s going on, this is why it’s bothering me, what do I do to change [00:32:00] things? Do I seek wisdom? Right. In other areas?

And sometimes 

CA: there’s, and sometimes there’s nothing you can do to change it. You just have to kind of accept it. 

Sharing Talents and Overcoming Challenges

John Kramer: And going back to the issue of displays, because as you know, that’s one of the things I post a lot about, it comes from a place of the desire to share my talents. And what would make a display work for me is a parish that is willing to help me, or a service group that can step in and say that this guy is doing amazing work.

We think that he’d be a good fit to come out. There are quite a few parishes in the region that I would love to visit to. Some of which I have been to before, that I would love to, to have a chance to come out again. There’s a, there’s a parish out in Troy, Michigan, uh, St. Anastasia. I did a couple years where I was doing displays with them for a bit.

Uh, back when I could still drive, but now that, because I don’t drive [00:33:00] anymore, it adds to an extra layer of challenge. I placed everything. Before the Lord, I may have desires. I may have parishes I’d like to visit, but ultimately it is God who has the final say. He may say, no, John, this is not a good fit for you for different reasons.

Is it because of transportation? Is it because the, the audience is just not there? I don’t know that so I often instead rather than just trying to focus on which person I want to visit My prayer is more along the lines of Lord send me forth I will I will go where you’re willing to send me even if I can’t see The logistics working out even if I can’t see.

Oh, yeah, 

CA: if if he wants you to go to parish X It’s going to happen Exactly. You know, I’ve seen these things happen if the Lord wants something You It is absolutely going to happen. I don’t care how remote the [00:34:00] chances are, if the Lord wants you to take that display to a parish in Japan, that’s going to happen.

It’s just going to happen. Nothing will be able to stop it. And I think that’s true for, for, for, for everybody. Really, if the Lord wants X or Y or Z, and you’re willing to do it, He’s not going to force you to do it. If you’re willing to do it, X or Y or Z, no matter how impossible it may seem, it’s absolutely going to happen.

John Kramer: And that’s exactly the feeling that I have. Uh, there’s been a couple of displays where I didn’t think that it could work out, but it actually worked out beautifully. Uh, one of the things I would love to do, one of the things I would love to do is go back to a school. 

CA: You know, that would be very valuable.

A 

John Kramer: couple of years ago. Like an elementary 

CA: school? 

John Kramer: Yeah, we’re even a high school because I think there’s a valid, but a couple of years ago, I visited a school out in rural Michigan about an area that was about an hour from me and they brought the great different grade levels down. So I was able to give different presentations, question [00:35:00] answers.

CA: In our generation, whether you had a disability or not, you learned how to suffer. Okay. So if you fell and scraped your knee, you just kept on playing. These days, if kids fall and scrape their knee. If they, if they even have a way of straping their knee, it depends on where they’re living. Uh, it’s like the biggest tragedy.

The Importance of Attitude

CA: You know, people growing up today, they don’t understand suffering. They don’t understand being without or having to just deal with it. You know, and I tell my kids all the time, everything is about your attitude. You understand? There’s a famous line. Well, I don’t know how famous it is, but it’s famous for me by Bob Dylan.

Some people get wet, others feel the rain. I The difference between people who get wet and people who feel the rain is their attitude, you know, it’s a difference of attitude and you have a really, really positive attitude that is literally taken something that, that on the surface just looks like a total [00:36:00] negative and you flipped it upside down.

To change its character. Yes, having a disability has its negatives. There’s no avoiding that. But you change its character in that it isn’t only negative. Some of the negatives can be, can, can become assets rather than liabilities. But also, it isn’t only negative. There are positives that you’re bringing to it as well because of your attitude toward it.

You know, it’s like, it’s like a, it’s, it’s literally a holy attitude toward it. 

Passion for Faith and Mass Attendance

John Kramer: You have to have a passion for what you do. For sure. You have to have a passion for the faith to be able to do this, uh, year after year. You have to have a desire in your heart to make the Mass a priority. Uh, and there have been days where I’ve gone to Mass where my brain isn’t in the right headspace, either because of stuff going on with, uh, family members and health issues or my own anxiety issues for that day.

Yeah. I still I’m with you on those. Yeah. It is very rare. [00:37:00] For me to miss mass, it has to be something significant nowadays. Where if I’ve got like a massive chest cough, ative, bronchitis, I don’t wanna infect. Right? I don’t wanna risk the other, uh, other members of our community. But if I’m just having anxiety issues or something going on, uh, I remember one year I had had a massive bike accident where the, 

CA: you 

John Kramer: love 

CA: to have accidents, man.

I 

John Kramer: know. I went to mass that Sunday morning. Looking like I, I was looking pretty rough. 

CA: You still went to mass anyway. 

John Kramer: I was moving slow. Right. Uh, I don’t remember. I don’t think I had a cane with me at that time, but I was walking slow. I was looking like I had been through the ringer. I’ve taken falls and I’ve gone, I’ve taken falls.

One morning I took a bad fall, uh, at my parents house. I still went to mass. [00:38:00]

CA: I remember one time, uh, first of all, that, that’s fantastic. I mean, especially someone in, you know, with, with your disability, uh, going through a fall or an accident for anybody, and then going, still going to church is something, but when you have a disability on top of that, that’s like, that’s the work of saints.

I, as you’re talking, I’m remembering one time, I don’t remember where we were. My family and I, we were on vacation someplace. Um, and we don’t do like extravagant vacations. Or anything. Uh, but this was like out of state and I don’t know, it was somewhere far away where I didn’t care what people thought of me, but here was the thing.

We, it was hot as hell. We had gone on like some hike, uh, anyway, we were pretty disheveled. We got lost on the hike or something, and so we were like up under the gun to get to mass on time where most people would say, ah, we we’re legit, we’re dirty, we’re grimy, this and that. I’m just gonna skip masks, but I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

My wife is like that, too. My wife wouldn’t, wouldn’t just say, you know, let’s get masked. But a lot of [00:39:00] grown ups would. They’re sure children don’t want to go to mask, you know. So we went in there, so we’re in like, you know, Like a, a, a, a, like a workout shirts and shorts and, and hiking shoes and we’re all disheveled.

It must have looked like all those people, but there we were, bro. We were right there. Oh, and it was so funny because we got into the pew. Boom. And then the opening procession just started, you know, we didn’t even have time to sit down. You know, when they say, please stand and greet our celebrant, whatever.

We didn’t even have time to sit down. We were already still standing up. We had just gotten in there. And I’m like, oh man, thank God I’m not from here, because I really don’t want to be known as the guy who came to church looking like that, and his family looks like that. I imagine, 

John Kramer: given the location, I imagine that you were not the first people to do that.

CA: Um, well, you’re probably right. Actually, I hadn’t even thought of that. You’re probably right. We were the only people that I saw there looking like that, but you’re probably a hundred percent right that that’s probably not the first time it happened. What added, what added to my, uh, my humiliation. I’ll put that in quotes.

I wasn’t really humiliated, [00:40:00] but, um, it was a very well dressed parish, not like snobby, but it was a very well dressed parish, you know, I mean, like the women with the skirts and they got. Even like the younger guys, the people who are in the, the guys who are like in their 20s, who are not there with their families and their mommies and daddies dressed, and 20s, they’re choosing to go.

Ordinary guy, even they were fairly well dressed, not like three pieces of rain, but pretty well dressed. And there we look like we just came out of an Indiana Jones movie. What the hell?

John Kramer: I often talk about, I often talk about when it comes to the issues of getting to pass, there’s always the desire in my heart and I will try and take part in the mass as often as I can. 

The Power of Community and Displays

John Kramer: And one of the things I love about doing the displays is number one, it gets me to visit parishes. It gets me to see what’s going on in other communities and see if there’s something that I can either bring to light through whatever I’m writing about [00:41:00] at the time.

Uh, and in fact, one of the series that I do, and I’d like to do more of, uh, this first person narrative called The Old Church. There’s a section on there where Uh, I was visiting a parish and there was this older lady who was deep in prayer. Uh, and I wrote about it a little bit. Uh, I wrote it for, for the old church because I really didn’t want to tie into the project.

That’s a really, 

CA: that’s a really cool idea, John. That’s a very, very cool idea. 

John Kramer: I’ve done, I’ve done, I think I’ve done five parts so far to it over the last couple of years. Uh, it’s just some nameless narrator who is making observations. 

CA: That is a really cool idea. 

John Kramer: Uh, I think the last one that I did, uh, the piano player.

We have a gentleman who came over from 

CA: And these are based on your real, real, um, experiences, right? Stuff that 

John Kramer: I’ve seen, stuff that others have seen, but yeah, it’s basically, it’s basically my own, [00:42:00] it’s your 

CA: perspective. 

John Kramer: Uh, the, one of my favorite ones is the agony on the cross. Uh, I think that was like part three or part four, that one really kind of dives into a lot of the suffering issues and stuff like that, just thoughts and reflections, 

CA: very important for people to share the talents that they have.

You know, I talk a lot about, um, well, I don’t, not a lot, but I talk some, um, On the podcast about being, what does it mean for you to be who God created, you know, everyone’s being is unique and different, but I think people need to, you know, come to a deeper understanding of who they truly are. You know, and be that and do it well and share those gifts with others, you know, like I think your Lego.

It’s interesting I was browsing a little through some of the pictures that I hadn’t seen my Twitter feed you have one here Which is so cool and you got a night and I guess it’s an icon or a picture of Solanus Casey At the front of the church. [00:43:00] That is so cool 

John Kramer: Season that was That may have been season 

CA: Season 18.

John Kramer: Okay. Oh, yeah Actually season 

CA: 18. 

John Kramer: Yeah season 18 was the first time I used that photo. 

CA: It’s very cool The whole picture of the whole display is very very very very cool It’s like I want to go to that church 

John Kramer: And one of the best things that people can do, obviously, is to keep my work in prayer. That is the critical thing.

CA: Please do, folks. Keep his work in prayer. 

John Kramer: The other thing, too, is that if there’s a parish that you think I might be a good fit at, talk to your leadership. Show them what I’m doing. Let them know what goes into it. If the parish has any questions, feel free to ask me. 

CA: Yeah. I think, I think your work Um, there’s a lot of hooks in your work, so the display may be a hook to getting you to give a presentation.

Yeah, exactly. The [00:44:00] writing, the writing, which you have some great ideas, um, and again, I didn’t even know that you did writing, um, the writing can be a hook to the display, or the writing can just stand alone, and then the display, you know, kind of supplemental, um, I think you’ve got a nice diverse set of talents that connect to each other.

John Kramer: Yeah, and that’s kind of the entire point. The, the, the former priest of our, of my parish, sees my work, uh, sees my writing as teachable moments. 

CA: Yes. I can see that. I mean, I haven’t really read a lot of your writing, but just from the ideas you’re talking about, the things that you’ve said that you’ve written, I can see those being teachable moments.

Well, you 

John Kramer: know, it’s kind of funny because I think at the core, when you look at what I’m doing, the writing, the project, I’m sharing the faith using my talents. Above, above all else. I put everything before God, uh, to allow me the opportunity to do stuff. [00:45:00] Especially like when I’m doing these interviews and stuff.

I think that it’s important because no matter what’s going on, my work opens doors to conversations. Um, one of the, one of the things that, one of the things that some people with disabilities have is that we become very, very self conscious with our quirks. 

CA: Yeah, I’ve heard that. I’ve heard that. 

John Kramer: I, I, I certainly get like that sometimes and I’m reflecting on it a little bit and trying to give a little bit of a voice to that to explain what’s going on in my own head.

And what do I do? And the conclusion was, I’m glad that while the world may not always understand me, God does. 

CA: Right. 

John Kramer: So. 

CA: That’s the important thing. God understands you perfectly. Yeah. I mean, I can, I can kind of, uh, I can kind of empathize. You know, because I have a lot of quirks. I was a weird kid. Um, and I jokingly say, but it’s kind of true I’m a weird grown up, but I’ve [00:46:00] learned how to conceal the weirdness that I let all hang out as a kid I’ve learned how to either conceal it or keep it in the background or even mask it to make it look like Something else and that was something that I you know Was always self conscious about and then I just got to a point where I said, you know what this is me And if you don’t like it To hell with you.

I’m, sorry, but 

John Kramer: It’s kind of the way that kind of the way that 

CA: this is just me, it’s, it’s not, I mean, it’s not like these like bad characteristics, they’re just character traits that aren’t in and of themselves bad, you know, and this is the person who God made, you know, my quirks, for instance, this is something that annoys me about myself.

Like I’m always trying to make a joke. I’m always trying to say something like jokey, um, not at the wrong times, but I just, it annoys me that I do that. So I’ve had to learn to reel that in. To the point where I just turned it off, and then I had to say, you know what? When God thought me up, that was just part of his design, and it just is what it is.

It’s not in and of [00:47:00] itself bad, as long as I’m not making something bad of it. You know, cracking jokes at a funeral or something. Um, So, when, when one’s quirk, sometimes one’s quirks are just who they are. It’s just what God designed in them. Sometimes they’re flaws, and oftentimes they’re not. They’re part of God’s design, and you just have to learn to be at peace with them.

John Kramer: I often say that when I’m out and about, one of the interesting quirks about me is I will talk to people about the project. I will show them pictures, but also sometimes I’ll also, there we go. I’ll also sometimes you can’t see because of the way it is, but yeah, I’ve got business cards. I keep on hand. I saw it.

Lego church project. I’ll hand those out. 

CA: Listen, this, this interview, this conversation is going a minute, I’m sorry, an hour and 20 minutes. So we should bring this to a close. I want to give you one last word, anything that you want. The audience to take from this or anything that you want to leave them with and also plug your socials or whatever you want, you know, [00:48:00] whatever content points of contact you want to plug.

I will also put links in this, uh, episodes description, but just also as a verbal, I’ll go ahead and plug what you want to plug. And what’s the final thing that you want to leave the audience with? 

Final Thoughts and Social Media Plugs

John Kramer: Well, first off, people can find me on Twitter under the KC8WZM, or look up LEGO Church Project. I’m always active on Twitter, on Facebook, look me up under LEGO Church Project, and on Substack, uh, you can find me at PrayingAtTheBricks.

And the final thought that I have is that God gives us some amazing talents, and even if you may not realize that you have them, they’re there. And the question that we have to ask ourselves is how can we use our talents to evangelize? How can we use our talents to help others who may be struggling?

That is what I’ve made the decision to do with my life. I have been given this rather unique ability to build. I have been [00:49:00] given this unique ability to write. This is how I share the faith. This is how I turn my disability into some kind of advantage. And to show people how I navigate life, how I navigate the faith.

And I hope that by looking at my work, you can learn something about yourselves as well. 

CA: Amen. Amen. And be careful, folks. You may not like what you learn about yourself. Part of the journey of self discovery Is you discover the things that are good and true and beautiful about yourself. You’re also going to discover that sometimes it’s buried under things you don’t like.

This is true. Be prepared for that. John, thank you so much for your time, brother. I appreciate it. This was supposed to be like a half an hour. I’m probably going to edit this down. 

John Kramer: It’s been a good conversation and thank you for having me. I greatly appreciate it. 

CA: Thank you, pal. God bless you. God be with you.

I’ll talk to you soon. 

John Kramer: Catch you later.