True Church. False Church. Which are you in?

Beware, The Two Churches

True Church. False Church. Which are you in?


The Two Churches

[00:00:00] CA: Welcome to the Catholic Experience episode, I think this is 24, recorded Tuesday, March 5th, in the year of our Lord, 2024. Thank you, Catholic Church. Got a lot on tap for you today. First, at the top of the show, I’m going to talk about some news items. The news has been very heavy in Catholic news, man. It’s been very heavy in the Catholic world.

[00:00:25] What I’m going to do at the top of the show is I’m going to talk about some news items. I’m going to spend about five minutes apiece on them. and I kind of do kind of an interesting twist, or I do something a little bit kind of funny, And then I’m going to have , an interview segment with Father Peter Dugandzic, a moral theologian from the Arch, I’m sorry, from the Diocese of Rockville Center.

[00:00:45] And we’re going to talk a little bit about, President Joe Biden’s opposition to church teaching on in vitro fertilization. , that’s going to be, that’s going to be a great segment. And then, the piece of resistance. We’re going to talk about the dichotomy of two churches.

[00:01:02] The true church, and the false church. Two churches. Or, you can also think of it as a church within a church. But one of them is not the real thing. Many people listening to this are going to be thinking, Yep, that’s right, I’m in the true one. Are you sure? Are you sure about that? Maybe you’re not. We’re going to talk about that at the bottom of this show, the dichotomy of two churches, and it’s going to be interesting.

[00:01:27] I hope you stick around, or if [00:01:30] you’re, if you listen to this and then pause it to come back later, I really hope you come back later, because we’re also going to be talking about a pope who isn’t the pope. A pope who isn’t the pope. Really funny story. Really funny story. That’s at the bottom. That’s at the bottom of today’s episode.

[00:01:43] So, let’s get on with it.  Usually when I do news, I make it, I call the segment The Pulse, 

[00:01:50] Dating apps are so bad that speed dating is in again. Said one active speed dater, it helped me find my first two wives, so I figured, what the hell? Care to spend a night in a cocoon? Hotels are betting on sleep tourism to bolster sales and to hypnotize people into giving them all their money.

[00:02:07] You’re getting very sleepy. And finally, leaked files reveal transgender group’s pseudoscientific crusade. and ethical abuse. Is this just another case of he said she said? Coming up right now on the pulse. Let’s go. And here we go again. Another episode or another segment of the pulse. You know, I actually did a new segment yesterday.

[00:02:30] I didn’t release it. I thought the news was just too glum, too gloomy. I really felt like doing the pulse for this episode of the Catholic experience. So, , it’s a day later and I’m actually redoing the new segment decided, uh, after all to do a pulse segment had to stretch far and wide to get these stories for you.

[00:02:48] I hope you enjoy them. First up speed dating. Dating apps have gotten so bad that speed dating is in again. You know, I almost forgot all about speed dating. I remember that was a thing 15, 20 years ago, [00:03:00] 10 years ago, something like that. It was kind of a weird fad. I guess it went away. And now it’s making a comeback.

[00:03:06] This is according to, , the Washington Post. Seven men and six women sit scattered around a tiny Irish pub in a sleepy San Francisco neighborhood on a Wednesday night. A woman with a sleek ponytail and jade blouse, blah blah blah. Then there’s John. 30. Sporting a bleached mullet. This is definitely san francisco Sporting a bleached mullet patchwork cardigan and unwavering self confidence I don’t know if I can continue This is his first attempt at speed dating.

[00:03:43] Boy, if you stopped looking like that, you wouldn’t need speed dating. Come on, man. This is his first attempt at speed dating, but it sure won’t be his last. I added that part myself. That anyway, this is his first attempt at speed dating He said and he’s loving it the novelty of meeting single women in real life Rather than swiping on a dating app The novelty of meeting single women in real life rather than swiping on a dating app I’m, I have to admit something to [00:04:30] you.

[00:04:30] I I generally Not generally, I always pre read these stories and get my thoughts together. , but this one, if you haven’t figured it out, this one is a surprise to me. Because this one is, by the time I got to this one, I’d read like 20 stories. Trying to get stories together that might be entertaining for you.

[00:04:51] So by the time I got to this one, I just kind of skimmed it. So that’s why some of this is so funny to me. Quote, I come off Better in person. John said, I just, oh God forgive me, I just try to match people’s energy, this poor thing. John had discovered this event in the most, in the most analog way possible.

[00:05:17] He spotted, he spotted a paper flyer on a nearby telephone pole. It had led him to a site called Shuffle, a speed dating service he and other participants said seems like a nice break from the discouraging process of app dating. Get this, they had paid 24. 99 to attend and would be charged twice that if they didn’t show.

[00:05:41] The penalty is meant to prevent the flakiness endemic to online dating. Okay, you get the gist of the story, and I’m just going to share a few thoughts with you about it. I can understand the need to cut to the chase, but speed dating seems to reduce people to [00:06:00] products. Are you, I mean, listen, I can understand question number one, are you Catholic, yes or no?

[00:06:05] No. But, faithful Catholics marry people who are not Catholic, or sometimes not even Christian, which I wouldn’t advise, I really wouldn’t advise that, but it happens, and the non Catholic or non Christian spouse sometimes converts, sometimes has a very strong conversion, right? So, You gotta look at the big picture.

[00:06:28] You gotta look at the big picture. But it does tend to reduce people to products. You know, does this fit my profile? The profile of what I want? People are more complex than products. A person can’t be reduced to a picture in a profile or a snapshot in time sitting down with them for five minutes or even an hour.

[00:06:45] When we fall in love, we fall in love with the whole person, not with a checklist. So this speed dating thing and dating apps, this is, these are all ailments of the modern world where we’re always shopping. We’re always looking for perfect. We’re pointing and clicking to find the right thing we want to watch.

[00:07:01] We want to maximize return with little to no investment of work or time or sacrifice, right? Sometimes the sacrifice isn’t just work. Sometimes sacrifice is sacrificing the perfect, you know, this is, A little less than perfect, or this is a lot less than perfect, but all the most important things are there.

[00:07:19] But it’s so far from perfect, uh, I don’t want it. But what kind of married couples will come out of speed dating, or dating apps? What becomes of the children of these couples? Do you ever think of [00:07:30] that? That’s if these couples have children at all. Having children involves long suffering. If you can’t even suffer through a proper courting process, what kind of parents will you make?

[00:07:38] I’m not being judgmental. People change a lot when they become parents, so you never know. And at the end of the day, I don’t think we should be giving in to our distorted conditioning as a culture. Speed living, , consumerism. These things are why speed dating is a thing. Because of speed, speed living, consumerism, shopping, looking for the perfect, pointing and clicking.

[00:08:00] We shouldn’t be giving it to this foreign condition. We should be correcting it. You know have date nights parishes should have date nights. That would be a great thing That’d be a great little ministry for a parish to have a date night for for singles catholic singles Whether whether or not the people are in their parish, but maybe require that they be catholic I don’t know if you could actually facilitate that or how you could but it’s an idea Next story almost as bizarre.

[00:08:23] Maybe I should have made this the first story hotels betting on sleep tourism Some of them charging up to 1, 700 to spend a night in a cocoon. To sleep perchance to dream. Or if not dream, at least to feel vaguely rested the next day. Especially on vacation. Is that too much to ask? For many people, yes it is.

[00:08:45] The United States is tired. According to the National Sleep Foundation. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the National Institutes of Health. And there is a link between poor sleep and depression. Did you know that, folks? There really [00:09:00] is, there’s a real link between poor sleep and depression.

[00:09:03] At the end of this, by the way, I’m going to give you some tips on how to get a good, a better, a better night’s sleep. I’m not going to say good. I don’t want to get sued. I’m going to tell you how to get a better night’s sleep. Poor sleep, or good sleep, is not, it’s not even about how little or how much you sleep.

[00:09:15] Although, they do, all the experts do suggest you get six to eight hours. But if it’s six to eight hours of bad quality sleep, it’s the same as sleeping for a half an hour. I, I’ve researched this a lot, just like personal interest and stuff over the years. , and also I’ve experienced it. I mean, there are nights where I’ll have four or five hours of sleep.

[00:09:35] I’m not, I’m not even kidding. I mean, for me to get eight. If I ever get eight hours, I’m a real, real slob. Because that is a lot of sleeping in for me. That’s a lot, if I can sleep for eight hours. Usually, at best, I’ll get six and a half, and that’s on a weekend. That’s six and a half hours on a weekend. And that’s really, really slumming it for me.

[00:09:53] But there are nights where I’ll get four or five hours of sleep, I’ll wake up feeling like a million bucks. There are nights I’ll sleep six, seven hours, still wake up feeling like garbage. So there really is kind of a sleep pandemic, I guess, in in this country, probably in the Western world, there are hotels recognizing this and offering amenities to their guests to help them not just to get away.

[00:10:13] It’s not just about the experience you have at the hotel. You know, we have a pool, we have a hot tub, this and that we have, you know, breakfast in the morning. It’s not just about the amenities at the hotel. It’s about a good night’s sleep. And this is what they’re zeroing in on. So in this article, they talk about a couple one hotel is a couple of hotels [00:10:30] are offering smart beds.

[00:10:31] It’s Or smart goggles. When you can’t sleep, strap this to your eyes and keep your eyes open. And look. Look as we beam images, backlit by blue lights, into your eyeball. God only knows what kind of image Images they’re projecting that you, that you don’t pick up on, but they, but they’re there. They’re in your mind.

[00:10:56] But so there’s that. Some hotels are, , offering retreats and programs like that. The Carlton or it’s Carlton or the Carlton is offering that and then there’s cocooning. So I’m going to skip to that part of the article. Relaxing the mind is a common theme. Relaxing the mind is a common theme in sleep tourism.

[00:11:15] Ha ha. But, how each property tries to accomplish that varies. Ms. Gallus said the bedrooms at the Park Hyatt cocoon away from the living space. In other words, you can close off the sleep area and make it dark and cozy. It’s an interesting idea. I’m just breaking away from the article for a second. That’s an interesting idea.

[00:11:37] I wish somebody had thought of this sooner. Offering a cocoon away from the living space, where you can close off the sleep area, and make it dark and cozy. That’s a really clever idea. They should call that, I don’t know, what’s a clever word for that? A clever name, what could we call that? Oh, they should call it a bedroom!

[00:11:53] That’s it! That’d be a great word for that! Britain’s Zedwell Hotels, a rare bargain entry, [00:12:00] features small, dimly lit cocoons, with an area distraction from the window to the wall. No TVs, no phones, and actually no windows, which for a certain kind of bad sleeper could provoke more anxiety, not less. These features, except for one, which I’m going to get to in a second.

[00:12:20] These features are things you can do at home. My friends. Don’t have a TV in your bedroom. It’s just stupid. Make sure your bedroom, your bedroom likely has windows, and if it doesn’t, even better. But if it does, put blackout curtains in there. Make it really, really as pitch black dark as possible. No phones.

[00:12:40] You can create these environments where, these environments conducive to a really good and deep night’s sleep. You know, but you have to, you have to do it. Another thing I would point out, in addition to having a really, really dark room, have a cold room. Don’t let it get too warm in your room. This is something really kind of primal in the human species.

[00:13:02] We like cold, dark rooms or a little, a little cool, kind of chilly and dark. We like to wrap up. I mean, do you guys do this? Do you have like a really cooled room? Whether you leave it. Cold in the winter, relatively cold, and you leave it very, very chilly in the summer with the air conditioning. And then you do, so, you do something that almost makes no sense.

[00:13:25] You wrap yourself up in a blanket. Well, that’s not actually crazy. For some reason, [00:13:30] that’s something in our DNA, we kind of like that. We like being in a cold, dark cave, and then the blanket itself does make us feel like secure and safe. Or, you can spend 2, 000 at a hotel for a night and let them do that for you.

[00:13:47] Final story, and this one’s a little bit, it’s a little bit something. It’s a little bit something enough that I brought it to a segment of The Pulse. Leaked files reveal transgender groups pseudoscientific crusade and ethical abuse. Leaked internal documents have revealed that members of a prominent transgender advocacy organization admitted that children who receive permanently life changing transgender procedures are too young to be capable of giving informed consent.

[00:14:18] The group, Environmental Progress, published on Tuesday what it dubbed, quote, the WPATH files, the WPATH files, WPATH is the organization, which it described as semi private conversations inside the internal online forum of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health. Let me fast forward. In its report, WPATH’s internal documents Environmental progress, environmental progress said the communications reveal a disregard, quote, a disregard for the scientific process around transgender centric medical procedures, particularly regarding the group’s, quote, support for [00:15:00] adolescent sex trait modification involving puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, and surgery.

[00:15:07] So, the, the basic gist of it is, is this. In the internal documents, people in the organization, in WPATH, WPA, whatever the hell it is, , have admitted, well, let me read one quote, When we start people on testosterone or estrogen, you know, we try to be as clear as we can about the stuff that’s going to be permanent and about the stuff that’s going to go backwards.

[00:15:30] Canadian endocrinologist Dan Metzger said during the panel. Quote, but I think the thing you have to remember about kids is that we’re often explaining these sorts of things to people who haven’t even had biology in school yet. End quote. So, you see what I’m saying? That it’s, it’s definitely revealing.

[00:15:51] They’re admitting that kids are too young for this stuff. Kids are too young to understand the, the consequences. There is one quote in here where someone from WPATH said, you know, I try to explain this to, to, to these, these young people, but it’s like talking to a blank wall. Well, of course it’s like talking to a blank wall because they’re too young.

[00:16:09] They, they haven’t fully developed this internal mechanism in their brains, this action consequence mechanism. Where consequence for them is just hypothetical. It’s just theoretical. It’s not real because these young people, even if they’re as, as young as 18 or as old as 18, they have existed [00:16:30] entirely. In a world where there are few consequences, most consequences are erased by their parents and the consequences they do have to suffer.

[00:16:39] Very, very few of them are permanent, for instance, by your, by the time you’re 18. There are very few, even by then, there are very few permanent consequences. Goofing off in school, in high school for four years. Well, there’s a permanent consequence that you realize, you realize, the gravity of it when you start applying for colleges and nobody wants you because they look at your transcripts.

[00:16:58] And then, only then do you realize, damn, I really shouldn’t have goofed off for four years. There are very few consequences even an 18 year old can comprehend. How are we doing this to 10, 11, 12, 13 year olds? Of course it’s like talking to a blank wall. Of course they don’t understand what they’re getting into.

[00:17:14] Anyway, I will leave links to all of these news stories on this episode’s On Demand page. If you’re getting this episode somewhere other than on my website, you’ll have to come to the website to get the links to these articles. Sorry, I have to try and, I have to try and con you into visiting my website somehow.

[00:17:31] Okay, let’s get on with the rest of the show.

[00:17:33] . A little while ago, I spoke with Father Peter DeGandrick. Moral theologian of the Diocese of Rockville Center, I wanted to get to, I wanted to basically pick his brain on the President’s opposition to church teaching on IVF, in vitro fertilization.

[00:17:48] CA: It was a great interview, you’re really going to enjoy it. It went in directions that I wasn’t even predicting. Let’s, we’re going to get to that in a second, and then After that, we’re going to come right back here to me, [00:18:00] Fake Live, and we’re going to talk about the dichotomy of two churches. There’s a true church and a false church.

[00:18:07] You may not recognize one from the other if you’re not careful. We’ll get into that after the interview. Let’s go to Father Daganjic. Here’s my interview with him now. Let’s go. I’m joined now by Father Peter Daganjic. Moral theologian extraordinary from the Diocese of Rockville Center. Thank you very much for joining me father.

[00:18:23] How you doing? 

[00:18:24] Fr. Dugandzic: I’m doing wonderfully. It’s good to catch up with you again 

[00:18:28] CA: Same here and thanks a lot. I know you’re a very busy guy because you’re very involved Pastor, you don’t just sit around and let the staff take care of everything. So I know five minutes of your time, let alone 15 is a sacrifice that I’m really thankful to you, grateful to 

[00:18:42] Fr. Dugandzic: you.

[00:18:42] And when it comes to dealing with communication, that’s a big part of what I do too. 

[00:18:47] CA: That’s true. You’ve, you have your own podcast on iTunes, right? Is it? 

[00:18:51] Fr. Dugandzic: I do have a podcast out there. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to do this part of it. So I’ve only been posting homilies and things like that.

[00:18:59] Okay. 

[00:18:59] CA: Hey, homilies is better than nomilies. Yep. 

[00:19:02] Fr. Dugandzic: Nomilies. It’s credo. Yeah. You have to put my last name though. Credo with Dugandzic. Because credo everybody has the name credo. I 

[00:19:09] CA: recently had that experience with my meditations podcast, which is brand new. I like meditations. I, that’s how I want it named.

[00:19:16] It’s a great podcast. Thank you very much for that. But there’s like a hundred thousand podcasts on there named meditations or meditations something. So I changed it to meditations for saints in the making, which is about as specific as you can get. I wanted to have [00:19:30] you on father to talk about this lunacy from Joe Biden.

[00:19:35] Long and short of it is this. Joe Biden says that he disagrees with the Catholic Church’s stance on IVF.

[00:19:41] This person says IVF is immoral and wrong because it destroys countless human embryos. What do you say to that? I don’t agree with that position. This really infuriated me because my response to it was, and I think you saw this on socials, my response to it is this. There’s no such thing as having a position against truth.

[00:20:03] The truth is what it is. Truth is reality. The only quote unquote position you can have is opposition, and that opposition is an opposition to reality. It’s not an opposition to someone else’s opinion. And you can talk to that a little bit, but another thing that I want to get into at the top of this segment is for the sake of people who don’t know or don’t understand, What is the church’s position on intravenous fertilization, on in vitro fertilization?

[00:20:33] The IVF is in vitro fertilization. What’s the church’s position and why? 

[00:20:38] Fr. Dugandzic: First off, the church is not against people having children, which is the way it comes across in the media. What our opposition is to is the fact that they’re separating the marital act by having, well, basically the baby made in a, in the glass.

[00:20:54] In vitro means in the glass. So they call it in vitro fertilization. Now think of [00:21:00] the ways that this is going to have to happen. First, they have to harvest the eggs and they have to get sperm. So I presume Catholics know that masturbation is immoral as well. Right. So right from the very get go, we have a problem there.

[00:21:14] Now we’ve separated the marital act. Again, we have a problem there. Children should be conceived through the marital act, period. 

[00:21:23] CA: Now, what if they artificially extract sperm to where it doesn’t require or involve masturbation? 

[00:21:31] Fr. Dugandzic: Would it still be safe? They do have methods like perforated condoms that they’ll use.

[00:21:36] They do have other methods. Really? Yes, you could do that. Yeah, really. It sounds weird. But again, it’s a workaround at best. And I really don’t think it’s the answer to the question. The problem still is that the child will be conceived outside of the womb and then have to be implanted into the womb. So another problem that is sitting in the background, this whole Alabama thing brought it to light, are those fertilized embryos human beings?

[00:22:05] Right, let me And they determined that they are, and the nation went crazy. Let 

[00:22:09] CA: me give some, give the audience some background on that. So Alabama recently passed a law declaring that unborn embryos, I hate that word, are human beings, which is a huge ruling. And that is what sparked all of this. With Joe Biden was asked an impromptu question, the Catholic Church says that IVF [00:22:30] is immoral and wrong because it terminates an unborn life.

[00:22:34] That’s the other dimension of IVF, is that the way they don’t extract one egg in the process, they extract many eggs. Fertilize as many as possible. They take the one egg that’s fertilized and I guess viable, and the other eggs that are, the other eggs that are, 

[00:22:52] Fr. Dugandzic: be beyond that. So go ahead. What they do is they actually screen the, like they’ll fertilize, say eight eggs, right?

[00:22:59] They’ll then screen for abnormalities and others and destroy the ones. That they don’t want. Unbelievable. They’ll freeze a bunch of them, so let’s say now there’s seven or eight frozen, and they’ll implant more than one, they’ll sometimes implant two or three, to have a higher success rate. Believe it or not, the success rate of IVF is very poor.

[00:23:21] Very poor. Very poor. So what ends up happening is a lot of these lives are just exterminated. If they do have success, and let’s say two or three implant, they offer the mother the opportunity to have an abortion of the two that she doesn’t want. God. This gets so mixed up. It’s painful to even think about.

[00:23:41] It’s really 

[00:23:41] CA: painful to think about. I have 

[00:23:43] Fr. Dugandzic: to tell you. Then, when it’s all said and done, if they have the child, and now it’s this consumer thing, we have bought a child, in effect. Right. And then they have three eggs left. But they don’t want to have another child. So what happens to these three [00:24:00] lives that sit in cryogenic freeze potentially forever?

[00:24:04] CA: I think a lot of people just look at this as a medical procedure, and it is not a medical procedure. It really is murder by means of a medical procedure. Or because of a medical procedure. Even if the Here’s a simple way of saying what I’m trying to say. The ends don’t justify the means. Well, having babies is good, right?

[00:24:23] The Catholic Church loves babies. But you cannot do Commit an evil for the sake of a good. That’s 

[00:24:29] Fr. Dugandzic: one of our moral principles that we have always held. You may not do evil, that good may come of it. Another thing, though that we have to introduce into this is the question that when someone is infertile, the problem is the infertility.

[00:24:46] Are we addressing the infertility? So they may have a poor success rate because they didn’t actually check to see if there’s underlying conditions in a woman’s womb, or they haven’t checked to see if there’s other underlying issues that can be helped. Right. And the Catholic Church has a wonderful alternative to all of this.

[00:25:04] We have Giana Centers. We have Natural Family Planning Centers. There were problems with like endometriosis, and when that’s solved, all of a sudden, she’s able to conceive. Wow. And we’ve had huge success, much higher success rates than IVF. 

[00:25:19] CA: I know two couples who have tried IVF to, to no success at all.

[00:25:26] I know, I think I might have told you this story at some point. I know one [00:25:30] couple who for several years, they were not able to conceive. And then one day they were, and I think today they have four children. And for several years they couldn’t conceive. I don’t think there was a medical procedure, or I think there was, but it still didn’t work.

[00:25:48] Not IVF, but to correct something. And it still didn’t work, and a year or two after that, all of a sudden, here come the children. It’s almost a miracle case, because one of their children was born four and a half months premature. I believe their second or third child, four and a half months premature.

[00:26:04] And survived. That boy, oh my God, he’s got to be nine, eight, or nine years old now. 

[00:26:11] Fr. Dugandzic: And those are stories that you could throw at an abortionist and say, this child was six months, five months in the womb and still survived. Yeah. It’s unbelievable. And yet they’ll say, seventh month, eighth month, go ahead and abort.

[00:26:24] CA: Well, they don’t care anyway. At this point, Father, they’re even, here and there, they’ll admit that they’re terminating an unborn human life, and they’ll say, and so what? There was literally a magazine article Number of years ago, and it was some very liberal magazine, I don’t remember what it was, but there was an article in there that said, and I’m only very barely paraphrasing the headline, Yes, abortion kills, kills an unborn human being, and that doesn’t matter.

[00:26:52] Can you believe that? Yeah, it’s unbelievable. 

[00:26:55] Fr. Dugandzic: One of the problems that we have to deal with as the Catholic Church, and we’re very poor at [00:27:00] doing it, is the language. Yeah. So what Biden did say is what everybody thinks. We have to protect the women’s fertility healthcare. Fertility, health care, it’s let’s kill babies for health care, right?

[00:27:13] Or let’s intervene and do these immoral procedures so that she can conceive, right? It’s strange to me. And I’ve never understood how that language could just take hold so easily. But you know what it is, people hear 

[00:27:29] CA: nothing else. That’s it. That’s it. You nailed it. Exactly. 

[00:27:32] Fr. Dugandzic: The bishops have been too silent.

[00:27:34] Yeah. Even from the pulpit, we’ve been too silent. Yeah. I’m surrounded by priests that look the other way at things all the time. Yeah. And no big deal. Even like this stuff that’s going on with Francis. There are some pastoral things when someone approaches me that I can have the conversation. It shouldn’t be showing up in a Vatican document.

[00:27:54] What do you mean? Oh, like blessing gay couples. Oh. Or divorce and remarriage and reception of Holy Communion. These things that he’s wandering into that don’t make it. So authoritative, because it’s not, you can’t, it even says in the document, we can’t change church teaching. And a document, 

[00:28:14] CA: yeah, a document doesn’t convey the nuances of what the church holds, okay.

[00:28:19] And I think, not to break off on a different subject, I think that the document fiduciary supplicants, that has a tremendous risk of scandalizing the faithful, because [00:28:30] people, look, People have gotten very dumb, okay, across the past one or two generations, at least. And people will look at that, even if you can get them to read it, good luck with that, even if you get them to read it, they’re going to come away from it.

[00:28:42] People do. Catholics do. They’ll come away from it thinking, there, see, the church is okay with gay marriage now. That’s another 

[00:28:49] Fr. Dugandzic: story. We had an issue in our diocese, a whole other story, as you say, where there was a teacher that was dismissed that happened to be gay. And the news media still said he was fired because he was gay, but the diocese’s only statement was, we cannot go into any of the information, but we can assure you it was not because he was gay.

[00:29:10] And they just kept running with that headline. 

[00:29:12] CA: Yeah, they just want to tell the story that they want to tell. Let me ask you something. Why do you think bishops of the United States have not said anything about Joe Biden’s statement? Let me just, before you answer, Because Donald Trump also thinks IVF is a good thing.

[00:29:28] From Catholic News Agency, the Republican Party, this is Donald Trump speaking. The Republican Party should always be on the side of the miracle of life. And the side of mothers, fathers, and their beautiful babies. IVF is an important part of that. But children are being killed for IVF. This doesn’t sound like a conservative to me.

[00:29:47] This sounds like new conservatism where we abandon the truth and we invent it, we invent something that looks like it. There’s never 

[00:29:54] Fr. Dugandzic: been an alternative voice to the narrative that’s out there right now. And that’s the narrative that’s [00:30:00] out there. This is a good’s coming of it. An infertile couple is now bouncing a baby on their knee.

[00:30:05] How wonderful is that? So whenever they write an article, there’s never a dissenting opinion included. If they were writing something about the Catholic Church, they would get the liberal quote that descends from what we’re talking about. So it’s I think we’ve had too long of a catechetical failure where the ignorance of Catholics in general, they don’t even know why.

[00:30:32] They don’t even know that IVF is immoral. Right. And then they don’t know why. You don’t know how many couples will come up to me and say, Oh, we’re trying to conceive a child, Father. Can you give us a blessing? Okay, I give them the blessing and they said, yeah, we’re going to the clinic this afternoon and we have the last round of our IVF.

[00:30:50] We’re trying. And like all of a sudden the shock and it’s I can’t believe you just said that to me. But again, they don’t 

[00:30:56] CA: know. They literally don’t know. I think the Catholic Church has, it has long had a problem, which is extraordinarily sad to me. Because when I think of communication, evangelization, I’m thinking of the Catholic Church, okay?

[00:31:14] Many popes, countless saints, Augustine just being one of them, Fulton Sheik, when I think of Communication to me is beautiful. It’s my everything. It’s my everything, communication. When you’re communicating, you are manifesting truth. [00:31:30] You’re making it efficacious. In the temporal order, okay? It’s serious stuff, but when I think of communications today, I do not think of Catholic Church.

[00:31:40] Not the Institutional Church, anyway, because the Catholic Church, the Institutional Church, doesn’t say anything. It doesn’t open its mouth. Or it’s, some do, yes, some do. No, what they’ll 

[00:31:52] Fr. Dugandzic: do is what they did in things like this. There will be this long convoluted article released on the USCCB website that nobody’s gonna read.

[00:32:02] Yeah. Instead of just having a little YouTube clip that gets out there and quickly says something. Nope, they just dropped this long article. Yeah, 

[00:32:10] CA: I think something that I said to you on on your Facebook, I think you had said that the bishops are like mum on this. And I said what I’ll offer to you here, and you can comment on it.

[00:32:21] The bishops have gone so long saying nothing that now they’re in too deep to say anything because even basic truths escape people today. And I think one of the contributing factors to that is that nobody has been telling the truth for so long. So during the lockdowns. I was, if you ask me, the church really laid down during the lockdowns, but I don’t want to get into that.

[00:32:48] However, when you’re a bishop, when you’re an ordinary of a diocese, this is my opinion. When you’re the ordinary of a diocese and you’re going in front of a camera or issuing a press statement saying, we should be allowed [00:33:00] to open our churches, Because we have a right to worship. My opinion is, that is a foolish argument.

[00:33:06] That is a foolish, childish argument. Because, is it true? Eh, yeah. But we should be able to open our churches. Because as Catholics, we have to worship in a church. We can pray at home. But worship for a Catholic happens on an altar, capital W Worship. We can’t do that from home. So we have a duty to God, yada, Now, it sounds like romantic nonsense.

[00:33:31] You’d never be able to say that on secular TV, and people understand you. That’s probably true. But. Aren’t we saying something that is the truth? And if we hadn’t been mum on the beauties of the faith and the significance and importance of this doctrine and this practice, if we hadn’t been so quiet, not only to the secular world, but to our own people, if we hadn’t been so quiet for 50, 60, 75 years, That might not have been a crazy, ridiculous, romantic statement.

[00:33:58] That we need to open the doors to our churches because unlike Jews and Muslims, et cetera, we can’t just pray in our living rooms with a Bible. We have to be in a church at an altar. We are 

[00:34:09] Fr. Dugandzic: a tactile faith, unlike the Protestants who it’s all about the preaching. Right. But there’s something that you’re scratching the surface of that is so much deeper that we could go on for a long time.

[00:34:20] And it’s that ignorance that’s out there. I know people who went through eight years of Catholic elementary school, four years of Catholic high school, four years of Catholic [00:34:30]college, and still cannot tell you that IVF is immoral, that contraception goes against the moral law, that abortion in every single case is always the murder of an innocent human being.

[00:34:41] Right. Some simple little truths that I can sum up very quickly. They don’t have the basis. If you will, the depth of that truth. So when you did your episode on metaphysics and ontology and trying to get it to truth, the truth is always a truth. But we need the language to express it. So we had a whole problem in the church up until Thomas Aquinas comes up with transubstantiation to understand how the Euclid’s could still look like bread, but not be bread.

[00:35:12] There’s a truth there, whether you see it or not with your eyes, that bread is no longer bread. It’s the substantially the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. When it comes to a human life. Well, that egg and that sperm get together, that’s a human life, because if left unbeated and in plants and does what it’s supposed to do, it’s going to be a human being, right?

[00:35:36] It’s going to look just like you or me. It just now looks different, but they can’t accept that. And nobody has taught anybody about things like, okay, I use the word potential. So they say human potential, they think a future realization of humanity. When we speak of potentiality in the church, it’s the power present in the being to [00:36:00] become what it is.

[00:36:02] So it already is human and has the power to fully realize that. Right. So when dogs, when dogs conceive a new dog, It’ll never be a human being. Right. It doesn’t have the potential or the power within it to ever be anything different. 

[00:36:18] CA: Let me ask you, way off topic, but related to what you’re just now saying.

[00:36:22] So potential comes from potence, has the power to be. The power to be, not just the power to exist, different. The power to be what it’s supposed to be. Is it unfertilized? I’m gonna think no. Is it unfertilized? Is an unfertilized egg a potential human being? I’m thinking from a technical point of view, no, because the truth has not met with the good.

[00:36:46] It’s not fertilized yet. There’s no dynamism inherent or intrinsic to its existence 

[00:36:51] Fr. Dugandzic: yet. And that’s a question that’s for the ages, but no, if left to itself and that egg just flows out of the womb and when she has her menstrual period. It’s not going to be a human being. It hadn’t the power to be a human being because it hadn’t been fertilized.

[00:37:08] So it’s 

[00:37:09] CA: not a potential human life, even though it’s even though it’s a secular way. Correct. Correct. But I’m doing this for the sake of the listener who might not have heard conversations like this or read stuff like this before. It’s not a potential human life because it’s unfertilized. It is the stuff of human life, but right now it’s just material.

[00:37:28] It hasn’t the potential for human life, [00:37:30] yet, because it’s unfertilized. It does not have the power to become another me, or another of its parents. 

[00:37:39] Fr. Dugandzic: Or we can use the traditional language, it hasn’t been ensouled. Once that sperm and that egg come together, a human being comes into existence. It’s fully human.

[00:37:50] Now it just has to grow, basically. And that’s You know, that’s something that’s just beyond people’s minds. They just can’t accept the fact that clump of cells is actually a human being. It’s actually a human being. And has the power to be fully realized at that moment. 

[00:38:07] CA: Right. And they’re going to be secularists, not just atheists, but secularists saying, Oh, then I guess your hair is a human being too.

[00:38:15] This is how stupid people have gotten. That if we’re saying a quote unquote clump of cells, a fertilized egg, is a human being, Well, then I guess your hair cells are human beings, too. I’m not asking you to respond to that, but you can. I’m just touching up another point we made earlier about how far gone the cultural intellect 

[00:38:32] Fr. Dugandzic: is.

[00:38:33] I think the biggest mistake we’ve made as a church is we haven’t used our education system to put that knowledge into people’s heads that they’re able to then work out the answer. Right. We haven’t taught them to think. So that’s why there’s such ignorance. That’s why a president of the United States who happens to be Catholic doesn’t see any problem with it at all.

[00:38:53] CA: And now you’ve set up my final question that I want to run by you, and I think the people are going to want to know this too. Everyone has drawn their [00:39:00] opinions. Is Joe Biden a Catholic? My ultimate answer to that is Who cares? It doesn’t matter. Is Satan an angel? Yes, and that doesn’t matter, because he’s not St.

[00:39:09] Michael, okay? What we call a thing only matters when it exists in accord with what we’re calling it. The Council of Surgeons says IVF is immoral and wrong because it destroys countless human embryos. I don’t agree with that position. Now, based on that Joe Biden is verbally saying, he’s not just, he’s not just saying with his leadership or with his policy, he is saying, I don’t agree with the Catholic Church’s position on IVF.

[00:39:41] Can we now just be cool and call him a heretic? So now your throwback to that is, well it depends on His level of ignorance, right? Can is he ignorant of catholic teaching go? 

[00:39:54] Fr. Dugandzic: Well, apparently he is ignorant if he can disagree with it because if he understood it the truth would set you free And he’s obviously not set free 

[00:40:01] CA: father.

[00:40:01] You really don’t think he understands the church’s teaching about 

[00:40:04] Fr. Dugandzic: this. I’m going to say 99 percent sure he has no clue why it’s 

[00:40:08] CA: immoral. Okay, well, They 

[00:40:11] Fr. Dugandzic: also threw at him, it’s destroying embryos, which was the whole thing that came up in the Alabama ruling. The word embryos. Yeah, but notice, you didn’t ask him, do you know that the church is Teaching says that in vitro fertilization as a procedure is immoral forgetting [00:40:30] about the embryos that the whole process itself, even the recorder asking didn’t ask the right question, right?

[00:40:37] We have a responsibility, and I think his bishop, the bishop of Washington, D. C. They need to instruct because the works of mercy say we’re supposed to instruct the ignorant. So they’re the ones that should be not only doing it privately, which is a, we’ll have a private conversation in a public way, step up and say, Mr.

[00:40:59] President, this is what we teach. This is the truth. You have to understand this before you can reject anything and he doesn’t understand it. So don’t reject it until you understand it. 

[00:41:11] CA: And I think at the end of the day, he may not be making the decisions. Anyway, but it bears repeating even donald trump is does not have a conservative view On this he also supports ivf because he also and look even if you told these characters, here’s what happens with IVF.

[00:41:30] This is why the church sees it wrong. It’s wrong. One of the reasons, one of the considerable reasons, is it destroys unborn human life. They’re both, I think, going to say, I don’t believe it’s a human life. 

[00:41:42] Fr. Dugandzic: Now, I don’t know if that’s the case. I think the way they, now again, let’s get out of morality and get out of the church and get into politics.

[00:41:52] Okay. It’s a political handoff. To say, Oh, no, this is a wonderful thing, right? Because they don’t even get into [00:42:00] the lives that are dying or the procedure. A woman really wants to have a child. This couple is really struggling. That’s what gets thrown out in the media. And that’s what they’re trying to answer, right?

[00:42:12] From the moment this Alabama thing happened. That’s what the media went crazy over. You’re taking away the possibility of this infertile couple ever having a child. 

[00:42:22] CA: This is going to have very dark echoes in the immediate future, I think. Because they’re still going to call it fertility. See, for the left, fertility health is abortion.

[00:42:37] This is the first time they’re calling fertility health. And they’re going to further and further distort what fertility and health and women’s health actually mean. 

[00:42:48] Fr. Dugandzic: And yet still the problem is going to be that nobody’s going to call out that inconsistency. Right. Right. That’s the part that bothers me the most.

[00:42:56] Yeah. 

[00:42:56] CA: And least of all, the church at a national level. At a local level, maybe. But at the national levels, though, plural, I do believe we have a problem. We have a problem with communication, consistency, unity. 

[00:43:09] Fr. Dugandzic: I’ll take it back to evangelization. We’ve gotta stop sacramental and start evangelizing. What do you mean 

[00:43:15] CA: sacramentalism?

[00:43:17] Fr. Dugandzic: We just put ’em through the hoops. We push them through the grinder. . They come out the other end. They’re confirmed. You never see them again. Yeah. But it’s the sticking carrot mentality we’ve had too long. Yeah. And it’s killing us. 

[00:43:26] CA: I agree. So even one of the, 

[00:43:28] Fr. Dugandzic: go ahead. One of the big [00:43:30] failures that we have had is that we need objective standards to pass everybody along.

[00:43:35] I got your saint report, you went to confession, you turned in five Sunday bulletins, et cetera, et cetera. Therefore, you’ve met the criteria that we set before you, except the one criteria of being madly and passionately in love with Jesus Christ. 

[00:43:52] CA: And that’s not going to happen in one year. 

[00:43:54] Fr. Dugandzic: Not in one year, not in eight years.

[00:43:56] It’s not going to happen if that’s not what’s at the heart of the program. Right. If what’s at the heart of the program is, here’s another hoop, jump through it. 

[00:44:04] CA: I think that’s basically what it is. It becomes almost like a mismanaged household. 

[00:44:09] Fr. Dugandzic: It worked 50 years ago because they did keep coming. They saw value in the church even if they didn’t understand it.

[00:44:16] Now, there’s no value there. The parents don’t come, they don’t go to church. We passed them through for eight years. We might have seen them ten times at mass, and we still say, yeah, you’re ready for confirmation. 

[00:44:28] CA: It’s a secular rite of passage, Father. What can I tell you? That’s what it’s been. And we’ve allowed it.

[00:44:32] Yeah we’ve allowed it. Please, 

[00:44:33] Fr. Dugandzic: God. And that’s why you have public figures, you have Catholics sitting in the pews that have no problem saying, I can support a politician at one. Because he’s so good on health care for other areas, right? Well, okay, but he’s killing babies, right? And that is on your hand as well if you support 

[00:44:53] CA: him.

[00:44:53] The excuses we make to do things that are foolish It’s just breathtaking. Father, I want to thank you again for your [00:45:00] time today. Anytime. And I appreciate it. Hopefully we’ll hear from you soon. Look for Father Peter Daganjic’s podcast Credo on iTunes and I think Spotify. It is on 

[00:45:11] Fr. Dugandzic: Spotify, it is on iHeart, it is on Amazon.

[00:45:15] I will It’s distributed all over the place, but if you can’t 

[00:45:17] CA: find it I know, that’s It’s a new era. I will drop a link to it on this episode’s On Demand page. And that’ll do it. Thank you. God bless you, Father. God 

[00:45:28] Fr. Dugandzic: bless you. 

[00:45:29] CA: Take care. 

[00:45:29] Fr. Dugandzic: Thank 

[00:45:30] CA: you. Getting back into the action, the Catholic experience with yours truly the Catholic adventure.

[00:45:36] I hope you’re enjoying the show so far. Bottom of the show, the meat and potatoes segment, talking about a dichotomy of two churches, true church and a false church. One of the most important episodes, probably. In this catalog. Now let’s fade that music out. You like how I say that? There’s somebody working for me?

[00:45:57] Are you buying this act? That I’ve got like a whole team of people working for me? You’re probably not, right? I’m gonna spend a little time now talking to you about two churches. False church and a real one. It can’t be overstated that there are a lot of people I’m not saying they are not actually Catholic, although those exist too, but there are a lot of people who effectively are in a false church.

[00:46:23] A lot of people listening to this might be nodding their heads. You might be thinking, yep, that’s right, we call [00:46:30] those modernists. I don’t know about that. It’s not just the modernists. It is also First, before I drop that dime, I have to tell you, some of you may be a little irritated by some of the things I’m about to say.

[00:46:47] Let me let that sink in for a second. Some of you may be a little irritated by some of the things you’re about to hear, but I’m begging you, please be adults. Please be adults. And before you get reactionary, or before you react in any way, listen to what I’m offering. Okay? And take it to prayer with you if some things don’t sit well with you.

[00:47:11] And you can always hit me up. I’m not hard to find. I’m on Twitter. And I’m on Facebook. Especially I’m active on Twitter. Feel free to DM me on Twitter. I’m very fine with that. If you have any questions or any pushback, and that’s all fine. Also, I’ll even go this far. If you want to email me, You can email me at catholicadventureratfiat.

[00:47:36] media Fiat Media, the publisher of this podcast. catholicadventureratfiat. media So it’s not just the modernists. And it’s also the modernized. But, you know where I’m going with this next? It’s also The radical traditionalists. Now, if you consider yourself a [00:48:00] traditionalist, please don’t think that I’m attacking you.

[00:48:02] I might not be talking about you at all. There are a couple of extremes on the left and on the right. I don’t want to say extremes, but there’s left of center and right of center. And then, from those two regions, there are more and more extremes. The first extreme that I want to talk to you about, I think you’re going to find it actually very funny.

[00:48:26] And I want to be very respectful here. I’m going to introduce you to Pope Michael. Have you heard of him? Pope Michael is an American whose real name was David Borden. Now, Pope Michael, or the so called Pope Michael, Mr. Borden, actually passed away in August of 2022. And for all of his crazy error, he seemed like a sweet kind of down home kind of guy.

[00:48:55] He was from Oklahoma he lived with his mother, long into his papacy, adulthood. And I just found him, he just seems like a poor soul kind of fella, or seemed. I think it is ridiculous that he, in case you don’t know, he was elected Pope, we’ll get to that in a second. Anyhow, the long drawn out way of saying, I don’t want to sound disrespectful because I think he was just a poor soul, probably had a really sweet heart from what it seemed to me, it seemed like he had a very sweet heart.

[00:49:23] And now he’s dead, I think his mother is also dead. And I just want to try to deal with this respectfully, [00:49:30] but I have to deal with it truthfully. So Pope Michael, so called Pope Michael. His real name was David Allen Bawden. He was born in He was born in 1959. He was He claimed to have been elected Pope in 1990, and he was the Pope until 2022, when he died.

[00:49:53] Believe it or not, he has a successor. His successor’s name is Rogelio Martinez. I don’t know what his taken name was. I think he took the name Pope Michael II. If you haven’t guessed, so called Pope Michael Was the city of a contest. He was a city of a contest elected in 1990 by six people, six people, two of them were his parents.

[00:50:17] So four people, really four people voted for him to be Pope. Let’s get to, let’s get to some some audio here. This is July the 16th, 1990 and Habemus Papam. We have a Pope. That is the voice of his father. Recording his son, the now elected so called Pope, Michael. And I’ll leave a link to the, this is from the documentary, which I saw this documentary maybe 15 years ago.

[00:50:47] And I was surprised to find it on YouTube. I’ll leave a link to it if you’d like to watch it yourself. Jesus to the apostles gathered together on July 16, 1990 to elect a [00:51:00] pope. And I was the man elected that day to the papacy, taking the name of Michael. I am Pope Michael, and the true church resides with those few faithful who believe.

[00:51:10] Who accept divine and Catholic faith without any question. And without any quibble. And who are obedient to me as the lawful successor of St. Peter, vicar of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Alleluia. And what you’re listening to is his the Pope. And his mother praying in their chapel, which is a wrench shack kind of room on the side of his house.

[00:51:35] Amen. The thing about Pope Michael is if you, and again, when I say Pope Michael I’m not calling him the real Pope, but it’s just funny. The thing about Pope Michael is if you listen to him talk, there are a lot of moments where he sounds really very Catholic. But he’s obviously not. If you didn’t know the difference between Catholicism and Sedevacantism, and you only listened to him speak, you would swear he’s the staunchest, most solid Catholic you have ever listened to in your life.

[00:52:13] In fact, he’s so staunch that he considered the Society of St. Pius X to be modernist. That’s how conservative Pope Michael was. If you’re calling SSPX modernist, wow. You’re really way far out there to the right. And you [00:52:30] might also believe, eh, this is just some crazy radical sect. No. This church, so called church, started with six people, six electors, and they claim today to have over a hundred members.

[00:52:43] Now, it’s only a hundred members. Okay. It’s a big ball of crazy, folks. I get it. But they did go from six to a hundred. They didn’t go away. They grew. There’s even a young man in the documentary, I think his name is Philip and Philip, after conversing with Pope Michael for a year on the internet, which almost seems creepy, seems like creepy grooming, but after conversing and exchanging messages with Pope Michael for a year, made the decision to join Pope Michael at his home, at his mother’s home, to become a priest in the so called Catholic Church.

[00:53:23] I don’t know what ever became of Philip. As far as I know, he wrote a couple of books that are published on Amazon. Religious, Catholic y sounding books. I don’t know if he’s still a so called priest or what. I know his books are still being sold. In fact, I think one of them has been reprinted.

[00:53:38] If you listen to Pope Michael, it comes out quite a bit in this documentary. He does sound very Catholic, if you don’t know what it means to be Catholic. I’m very familiar with Sedevacantus because I was very nearly a Sedevacantus about 20 years ago. Maybe a little more than 20 years ago. I don’t remember how [00:54:00] this happened.

[00:54:00] It also happened over the internet. Where I got, oh, I’ll tell you how it happened. I used to subscribe to a number of Catholic news, if you’re too young you don’t remember news groups. I used to subscribe to a number of Catholic news, if you’re too young you don’t remember news groups.

[00:54:13] But I used to subscribe to a number of Catholic newsgroups, Catholic apologetics, evangelization and then just basic, conversation. And I used to hit these newsgroups really hard. Because of course, on any Catholic thing, a Catholic newsgroup, Catholic social media, Catholic website, there’s going, there are going to be opposers.

[00:54:33] And there were many opposers on these newsgroups, in fact, some of them I think invited them, because they were apologetics and evangel, apologetical. News groups, some of them. And I was writing maybe a hundred responses a day. I am not even kidding. And if you hear how much I can talk, let me tell you, I’m worse when I’m writing.

[00:54:52] So a hundred responses from me, that’s an awful lot of writing. How I had the time for it, I don’t know because I was working a lot. So I don’t know how I had the time for that. And during these exchanges, I came I became familiar with one of the other Catholic posters who was a sedi vacantist. I didn’t know what that term meant.

[00:55:12] And she, it was a woman, she was basically explaining to me, that there, there really is no Pope. The papacy was taken over by modernist this, and she gave me the whole story of why the current church, what I am calling, what I was calling the Catholic Church is not really the true church.

[00:55:28] The true church [00:55:30] is missing a Pope. There is no Pope. That’s what Sedevacantus means. The Chair of Peter is empty. And she got me to attend believe it or not, about maybe 45 minutes from where I lived. There was a Sedevacantus parish. She got me to go to Mass there. I went to Mass there a couple of times.

[00:55:51] I became, I wouldn’t say involved. But I guess involved in the sense that I became very communicative with these people, exchanging thoughts, ideas, asking questions. And I was in fairly deep. I did not stop going to my local parish church. I still went to Mass, although I thought I was going to Mass twice.

[00:56:11] Once at the real Catholic parish, and once at the fake one. And all of it seemed so Catholic to me. In fact, the Sede Vakantis seemed very Catholic. They seemed, quote unquote, more Catholic than my home parish. Even a little bit more Catholic than the true church that I grew up in. You’ve heard me say this in past episodes, I had a very rich Catholic upbringing.

[00:56:39] In terms of, the Catholic school was very tight, the Catholic parish, the parish was very tight, the liturgy was very tight. And these Sedevacantists seemed at least that tight, but even a little tighter. Right, so these were very this community was very motivating for me but, things were not adding up for me.

[00:56:58] Things were not [00:57:00] adding up for me and I started to ask hard questions and I was very unsatisfied with the answers I was getting. One of the hard questions I was asking was this, how can the whole, how could the Holy Spirit allow this to happen? I was asking a lot of hard questions but let’s just settle on that one.

[00:57:20] How could the Holy Spirit allow this to happen? I would ask hard questions about how they were representing certain papal documents. How they were representing the Mass, which I was all on board with. The Mass is, it’s a heretical Mass. I was all on board with that. But again, arguments they were making about the Mass and the liturgy were not making sense.

[00:57:43] And, here was the big blip on my radar. The responses to my questions were not logical. Now, if you know what you’re talking about and if you’re representing the truth, Your responses are going to be logical. They may be deficient if you don’t have the answer or if you don’t have the whole of the answer.

[00:58:02] I can accept a deficient response and get what’s missing later from someone else. But your responses were illogical. Their responses, I should say, were illogical. And this, to me, seemed like what they were selling was a lie.

[00:58:20] In the end, I asked this Sedevacantist and that and the other Sedevacantist. I even asked two separately, two Sedevacantist priests, [00:58:30] because I thought for sure the priests will know how to answer these questions. And my jaw dropped as I was listening separately to these men answering these questions in a way that I knew what you’re telling me.

[00:58:43] Is a lie. I just know a lie when I spot one. Sometimes I don’t always, especially when I was younger, I don’t, I couldn’t always tell you why I know it’s a lie, but it was an instinct. I can spot a lie when I smell one, when I see one, when I hear one. And then I started doing my own research. I took all of their arguments, all of their references, referencing this document, that document, early church, and this and that.

[00:59:07] And I took all of their arguments and I said, okay. Let me see for myself, with my own eyes, what these arguments are, on what these arguments are rooted, history, church fathers, papal documents, stuff like this, and theology. Let me see what these arguments are rooted in or resting on, and let me go to those documents, and I will read them, and I will see what I see in them.

[00:59:35] Long story short, and I want to say again, I never stopped attending my local parish. For Because while I, anyway, enough said about that. So I never stopped going to Mass to the real Mass. And I only went to a few of the Sedevacantus Masses. But anyway. In researching their arguments, I found their arguments not just to be lacking, but many of them to be [01:00:00] flat, ridiculous, and I felt so conned,

[01:00:04] and that was the end of my relationship with the city of a contest. So you might have seen me reference this. It depends on how many of my tweets the algorithm is sending you, but you might’ve seen me reference this on X, where once in a while I’ll say to somebody, yeah, I know the setting for contest very well.

[01:00:18] I was almost, I was nearly seduced by the Sede Vicantis. I, here and there I’ve dropped references to it, but that’s what I just told you is pretty much 75 percent of the story. The Sede Vicantis think they’re in the real church. Pope Michael, God rest his soul, and God have mercy on him for what he had done.

[01:00:36] Pope Michael thought he was the head of the true church. And then on the other side, on the other extreme, you have modernists who think they are in the true church. I don’t mean modernized, modernists ca, sects of Catholic traditions, lowercase T traditions. They or they ordained women.

[01:00:56] They ordained the bishops that they want and so on. Actual modernists. Okay, modernist heretics. Then you have, they believe they’re in the true church. Now you take the extreme right set of contests and the extreme left modernists, and now draw that in a little bit. To where, on each side of the theological aisle, now they’re within the boundaries of what Catholicism is.

[01:01:21] Now you have the modernized, and you have not all traditionalists, but radical traditionalists. They’re [01:01:30] within the boundaries of Catholicism. Right? They’re not heretics on the left or on the right. They’re within the boundaries of Catholicism. But they’re extremely close to those margins. On the left, they agree with I don’t know.

[01:01:44] Some or most of what the church teaches, but not all. The things that they, for instance, they believe in the Eucharist. Well, hopefully. Usually, even the modernized believe in the real presence of the Holy Eucharist. But they may not believe in the church’s position on contraception or abortion. Right? They may think, well, premarital sex is okay as long as you love each other.

[01:02:06] It sounds Catholic ish, but it’s not Catholic. Because you’ve got love in there, right? And they may genuinely believe that. You have to be in love. You have to be in love, and then it doesn’t matter if you’re married or not. That almost sounds really virtuous, but obviously it’s wrong.

[01:02:23] Obviously, it’s a lie. So you have that sort of modernist or modernized philosophy of Catholicism, or what they call Catholicism, but they believe it’s the true church. Really, it’s a church within a church. Then on the right, I’m not sure what to make of radical traditionalists, which I am not including all traditionalists in that.

[01:02:48] I want to be very clear. I am not sure what to make of radical traditionalists because they literally, in one sentence, they will say, I believe the Pope is the [01:03:00] true Pope. And in the very next sentence, they will say, But I believe he’s an illegitimate pope. An illegitimate pope. Or something like that.

[01:03:08] Literally from one sentence to the next. From one sentence, they believe in the authority of the pontiff. In the next sentence, they don’t. You might think, well, Pope Francis is confusing a lot of people. Uh uh. Folks, I’ve been in this game a long time. They were saying that of John Paul II. They were saying that of Benedict XVI.

[01:03:30] This did not start with Pope Francis’s pontificate. So I’m not sure what to make of radical traditionalists except that they believe the novus ordo mass is not a valid mass. And then when you press them on it, they’ll say, well, it’s valid, but it’s not actually valid. Or they’ll say something stupid like that where they don’t want to believe the Pope is the true Pope.

[01:03:54] Or the Novus Ordo is a real and valid mass. They don’t want to believe it, but they know they have to. Because if they say otherwise, that could make them heretics. It could. I’m not saying necessarily it does. It depends on the individual and the character of their argument or their belief. Now, you have the modernized and the radical, not all traditionalists, but the radical traditionalists.

[01:04:18] Now pull that in each of them. Pull those in a little bit more, a little further away from the margins, a little closer to center, but not too [01:04:30] close. Now you have traditionalists, don’t get don’t get upset traditionalists, hear what I’m telling you, you don’t know what I’m about to say. You have traditionalists on the right, and I don’t know what you would call them on the left.

[01:04:46] Maybe if I were pressed to identify or characterize or categorize them on the left at this point, I would still call them modernized, but they’re not as modernized as the ones who are a little further to the left, closer to the margin, who are not quite yet modernist. So you have traditionalists and the modernized.

[01:05:07] A little bit closer to the center, but not too close. And definitely not in the center. And the traditionalists The modernized believe that the Novus Ordo is the true mass, but it’s not as efficacious as the traditional Latin mass. The modernized, so it’s the traditionalist’s counterpart on the left. The modernized say, not only is the Novus Ordo the true mass, but Vatican II changed the church.

[01:05:33] For the better. Vatican II, so the modernized basically believe Vatican II was year one of the Holy Catholic Church. That’s when the church was really born. Not literally, they don’t literally believe that, but they believe that Vatican II, which is not a new church, they believe it’s effectively a new church.

[01:05:53] Right? Where do you think the term Spirit of Vatican II came from? I’ve got news for you. It doesn’t come from the Vatican II documents. It [01:06:00] does not exist there, that term. On the right, the tradition Now, there are all kinds of traditionalists. There are all kinds of traditionalists. There are traditionalists who are very close to the radical, sector.

[01:06:13] And then there are traditionalists who are very close to dead center. Okay? I don’t know who I’m talking to as you listen to this. You could be There are many, there are hundreds of shades of traditionalists, starting from the center, going outward, until you hit radical traditionalists, right? There are many shades, so please don’t think I’m attacking you, please don’t think that, because there are hundreds of shades of you.

[01:06:40] Same thing on the left, hundreds of shades, before you get to extreme modernized, and before you get to modernist, okay? So please don’t think I’m talking about you. There are traditionalists who also believe Vatican II changed the church, but changed it for the worse. On the left, Vatican II changed the church for the better.

[01:06:57] On the right, or traditionalists, not all, but some, believe Vatican II changed the church for the worst. Both sides are wrong. Both sides are wrong. In fact, Vatican II didn’t change the church at all. You could say, well, the church today, for instance, the mass today is not like the mass of 1950s. But that’s not a change.

[01:07:18] I wouldn’t even call that an evolution. I would call that an adjustment. Maybe, even that word I don’t like because adjustment implies that what we had before needed some work. And that isn’t [01:07:30] true. That isn’t true. I would call it maybe, I don’t know what you would call it, but it’s not a change. The fundamentals of the Mass that were there before Vatican II are still there.

[01:07:43] If you study the history of the liturgy Going from the early church before the traditional Latin mass or the 1962 Roman Missal, whatever they call it. If you study the history of the liturgy, going back to the early church, what you will see in the early church is what today is called the Novus Ordo.

[01:08:02] The fundamentals of what in the early church liturgy, now in the early church there were many liturgies, but the most One of the more common ones. One of the more common liturgies. And some of the liturgies in the early church were not valid. That’s the reason why the liturgy was unified.

[01:08:15] That’s another story. Anyway, in some of the more common liturgies of the early church, including what many of the church fathers would have attended, the fundamentals you find there, you will not only find in the Novus Ordo, you will also find them in the traditional Latin Mass. So the fundamentals of the liturgy are 2, 000 years old.

[01:08:36] And you may be 50 years old. Your body is different from what it was at five, but it’s still your body, right? It’s still the same body The fundamentals are there It’s just grown Right, it’s a loose example, but you get the metaphor. I hope Anyway, not trying to play apologist to the left or the right.

[01:08:56] I’m just setting a foundation Once you go left of [01:09:00] center or right of center You do begin to leave The church. Here’s what I mean by that. I’m not saying traditionalists are not Catholic. I’m not even saying the modern is, the modernized rather, I’m not even saying they’re not Catholic. But the further to the left you go, the less Catholic you become.

[01:09:19] The further to the right you go, the less Catholic you become. Folks, I’ve had exchanges with traditionalists, and like far right traditionalists who aren’t quite radical. I’ve had exchanges with traditionalists. I’m gonna say flat out worship the liturgy. They don’t really worship God. They worship the liturgy.

[01:09:37] It’s all over. They don’t say this, but if you look at their language, it’s very apparent. It’s very apparent that the liturgy is their faith. They say, silly things like, yes, Francis or whoever is the true Pope, but he’s an illegitimate true Pope. That’s an exact quote that I once heard. And I hear things like that.

[01:09:59] The further to the left you go, the less Catholic you are. Believe it or not, the further to the right you go, and this is someone who was nearly a Sedevacantist, if you want to know what my foundations are, in terms of my affiliation with, philosophical conservative thought. And this is me saying, the further to the right you go, the less Catholic you are.

[01:10:20] Why? Why is that I’m going to tell you why it’s and it may blow your mind. I have said this, or at least alluded to it in other episodes in some of my writing. [01:10:30] I did a podcast which I think is subscriber only, paid subscribers only, it’s called Endgame. If you look for the, if you do a search for Endgame on my website, CatholicAdventurer.

[01:10:39] com, you will find it. And there’s a four minute free preview there. It loads at the top of that page. You get four minutes of it. You have to be a paid subscriber to get the whole episode. But I’ve alluded to this in other episodes, free episodes. The devil knows he can’t get Catholics, like good Catholics, with the same tricks with which he fools ordinary secular people.

[01:11:02] He knows that. So what he has to do is he has to seduce you with the object of your love. Not just God, but the church. He has to seduce you using the church, using the faith as the bait. Because if he can sway you more to the left or more to the right, and folks, once you start going to the right, it does not end.

[01:11:26] Once you break from the center, you do drift.

[01:11:30] CA: And you keep drifting unless you course correct. You probably know this in your own lives. You probably know people who started drifting more and more to the left. And over time, they were really loose. And then over time, they probably just stopped being Catholic altogether. It happens on the right, too.

[01:11:48] People think, well, Catholicism is conservative, so the more conservative I am, the more Catholic I am. That is not true. Look for my episode titled, Truth and Balance. As humans, we would say [01:12:00] the truth is in the center, but God has no center. He’s the fullness of truth. The only way we can illustrate that as finite human beings is to call it a center.

[01:12:09] Okay? You would think, well, Catholicism is conservative, so the more conservative, the more Catholic. No. No. Because the more Look at the Pharisees. They were extremely conservative. But Jesus had a problem with them. If the devil can get you to get more to the right, or more to the left, more and more Because the devil doesn’t stop.

[01:12:28] He doesn’t get you a little bit to the left or a little bit to the right and say, ha, got him. My work’s done. He doesn’t do that. He pulls you more and more. He seduces you by slow degrees. It’s the whole thing of the frog in the water. Put a frog in water, he’ll, in boiling water, he’ll jump out.

[01:12:45] Put a frog in lukewarm water or room temperature water and just slowly increase the temperature, the frog will boil to death, right? We’ve all heard this one. It’s the same thing when you sway to the right or sway to the left.

[01:12:56] The devil knows that if he can make you less and less Catholic, and again, being more quote unquote charitable leftists, being more charitable, Does not make you more Catholic. It progressively makes you less Catholic. Shocker! The more and more you sway to the left, and the, on the left, you can characterize their overall philosophy as an interest in charity.

[01:13:20] Right? Loosening rules, loosening gospel precepts, charity, for love of people, make things easier on people, [01:13:30] make people happier. It’s basically charity. So you would think the more to the left, the more charitable my Catholicism is, the more Catholic it is. That is not true. It is absolutely 100 percent not true.

[01:13:44] Well, but God loves unconditionally. That is not true. God has conditions. Should proceed. In fact, it does proceed from truth. It doesn’t stand on its own. So when charity finds itself in opposition to the truth, it is no longer charity. It’s a lie. It’s poison flavored to taste like charity. The same is true on the right.

[01:14:10] The more conservative you are, the more rigid you are, you would think, well, that’s the more Catholic I am. That is not true. That is not true, my friends. On the left, they take Catholicism. If you think of Catholicism as a human body, on the left, what they do with that human body is they separate the spirit from the flesh.

[01:14:32] They separate the soul from the body. You can’t do anything with a body, because it’s physical. Right? So you could never turn the body into a pony, because it’s a human body. But with a soul, think of a soul as being malleable, which there’s actually some metaphysical truth to that. Think of a soul, though, as being malleable, like clay or like water.

[01:14:59] If you [01:15:00] remove the malleable soul, the moldable soul from the rigid human body, then you can do whatever you want with that soul or with the spirit, I’ll say. Separate the spirit from the body. You can do whatever you want with the spirit. You can mold it to be whatever you want, because now it’s no longer confined by the precepts and rigidity of what the human body is, because you’ve separated it from the body.

[01:15:22] That’s what the leftists do. They take Catholicism and they separate its spirit, its soul, from its body its laws, its rules, the truth, the practice, orthodoxy. That’s the, that’s its body. They separate one from the other so they can do whatever they want with the spirit and remold it to be whatever they think the Catholic Church or the Catholic faith actually is.

[01:15:46] On the right, and it’s not everyone who’s on the right. As I said, there are a hundred grades of conservatism in the right of the church. Okay? They’re not all crazy. They’re not all bad. I get it. I get it. So please don’t think I’m talking about you. But listen to what I’m saying with an open mind, okay?

[01:16:08] On the right, and I know this because I have been there, on the right, where the left separates the soul from the body so that they can mold the spirit into something else, something detached and free from the confines or from the precepts of what the body is, on the right, they tend to separate the soul from [01:16:30] the body also, but what they do then is they toss out the spirit and they just adhere to the body.

[01:16:38] RIDGID This is what the body is. But if you separate the body from its animating spirit, what do you have? You have a corpse. If you separate a body from its anim If you separate a spirit from, the form and substance of its body, what do you have? You have an idea. You have air, is basically what you have.

[01:16:58] You have nothing. You have nothing. So on the right, they separate the soul from the body. They toss out the soul. And they say, well, we have the body. This is what Catholicism is. But it’s not. What you have is a dead body. Because it’s detached from its animating spirit. What is that animating spirit?

[01:17:17] Well folks, what the church is today is not what the church was in 33 A. D. Or 34 A. D. Or 1000 A. D. The church has an animating spirit and I don’t mean the Holy Spirit but it does have that. I’m sticking to the metaphor, okay? It has an animating spirit. It’s a person. The church is a person. It grows. It has mechanism.

[01:17:42] Think of the body as like a mechanism. It works this way and this is how it’s supposed to work and it’s only gonna work this way. It’s a mechanism. It is mechanism, but it’s also organism. It grows. It adjusts. It lives. It is a living Quote unquote organism [01:18:00] that does not change, but it does grow.

[01:18:02] Organisms grow. Dead bodies do not. So what is this true church, false church thing? In the history of the church, it was easier to correct or It was easier to evangelize the pagans than it was to correct a heretic. Why? Because the heretic, and this is true today, the heretic, or someone who deeply errs, they believe they’ve got it right.

[01:18:27] And it’s really, take it from me, I’ve been in evangelization a long time, it is very hard to correct someone who is definitely wrong, but who definitely believes they have it correct. Easier to convert a pagan than to correct someone who’s wrong. I don’t want, I don’t want to say a heretic, but Definitely easier to correct, to evangelize a pagan than to correct a heretic.

[01:18:54] And I’m not saying, I’m not addressing heretics here, I’m just saying that’s been the history of the church. And there are people, beautiful people, and I’m not talking about setties. Or modernists, people who are definitely outside of the boundaries of the church, of what being Catholic is. There are people within the church who progressively have it more and more wrong on the left and on the right.

[01:19:21] You may know some of them. You may be related to some of them. Especially people who are modernized. That’s the more common. People [01:19:30] who are more modernized, who have really good hearts. But they really take Catholicism further and further to the left because they’re afraid of hurting people’s feelings or breaking people’s hearts.

[01:19:43] Rather than to correct or to encourage the people in their lives to change, and they may be the one who needs change also, right? Rather than to change or to correct the people in their lives who perhaps need to be living differently, need to live differently, Rather than to do that, they change what Catholicism is.

[01:20:06] Rather than to change, or to change to help promote or provoke the change in others, or to inspire change in others, they compromise what the faith truly is, what the truth truly is. And these poor, beautiful people, they are Catholic, but they’re in the false church. They created Effectively, in their hearts, in their minds, in their homes, in their lives, in their families, they’ve effectively created a church within a church.

[01:20:37] They’ve created a false church.

[01:20:41] We find it on the right as well. Folks, I see this all over the church, on the internet, off the internet, on socials, in the blogosphere, everywhere. Traditionalism is growing. And I’m going to give you my honest opinion of it. [01:21:00] Traditionalism is growing, and that is not a good thing. Because it’s easier to evangelize a pagan than to correct a heretic.

[01:21:09] I’m not saying traditionalists are heretics. I’m, again, I’m just alluding to the church’s history. It’s easier to correct, to evangelize a pagan or convert a pagan than to correct a heretic. And I want to say for the billionth time, and I know there are traditionalists who will hear me say this for the one billionth time and still not hear it, but here it is again.

[01:21:34] I’m not talking to everyone who calls themselves a traditionalist. Please do not think I’m talking about you, okay? But this is true. throughout various degrees or grades toward the right. It is true that many people on the right are swaying very far from what Catholicism is. There are some people I’ve had interactions with who I am very convinced, at Judgment Day, they’re going to be in very big trouble.

[01:22:04] Very. And I’m, hey, I’m all on board the mercy of God thing. I do not call down fire from heaven very, quickly, I’m more mercy of God than justice of God, but I believe in them equally. But I am telling you, there are people, many who are calling themselves traditionalist or quote unquote TLM Catholic, not all, but I’ve encountered very many who I strongly [01:22:30] believe are not going to have a good day at judgment.

[01:22:34] They are not going to have a good day at judgment. But Lord, we professed your name, we ate with you, and Jesus is going to say, to people on the left as well, he’s going to say, I don’t even know who you are, depart from me you evildoer. Many people on the right think that they’re safe because they’re conservative.

[01:22:52] That may not necessarily be so. I have encounters with strong conservatives all the time. Many of them, not all, many of them, I am strongly convinced, at Judgment Day, you’re going to have a problem. Why? Because the further and further to the right you go, just as it’s true on the left, further to the left that you go, the further to the right that you go, you become less and less Catholic, and you have fewer and fewer excuses, because you knew better.

[01:23:21] It’s not like John Doe Modernist, down, down the road. Who was baptized Catholic, but was not raised in the faith. Well, he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. He’s going to have some things to answer for, but the modernist Catholic who grew up in the faith knows better and has fewer and fewer excuses.

[01:23:41] The further and further they sway to the left. On the right. Same thing. Folks. God is universal. He doesn’t play favorites. So if you believe this is true for those in the left. You necessarily have to believe that it’s also true for those on the right. That the further and further [01:24:00] to the right you go, the more and more off course you are, and the fewer and fewer excuses you will have at judgment.

[01:24:07] And I don’t, I’m not happy to say that. It makes my heart sad. It makes my heart sad. That there are people firmly in what they think is the church. And progressively, not all of them, mean, in progression, , progressively, the further and further to the left or to the right they go, they are not in the true church.

[01:24:30] They’re in an imposter church. They’re not Sedeficantists, they’re not modernists per se, but they are not in the true church. They’re in a, an imposter church. They are truly within the boundaries of the Catholic Church, but they are not in the true church. They’re in an imposter. What do I mean? what is the true church?

[01:24:49] What’s the middle? What’s the center? This show is running super long, so I’m going to make this last part quick. What’s the center? What’s the true church? The true church is in the center, and that does not mean it’s centrist. . Being in the middle, being balanced, is not centrism.

[01:25:05] Go back to the episode I did called Balance and Truth. I explain all of this. It is not centrism. The balance, being in the middle is, aspiring to the whole of the truth rather than pieces of it. On the left, believe it or not, I can’t even believe it as I say it, but it’s the truth. On the left, they do have pieces of truth.

[01:25:28] Anything that, [01:25:30] that echoes compassion, charity, mercy, that’s usually in a leftist philosophy. Oftentimes, it goes too far, right? Modern liberalism especially goes too far. On the right, that’s where you’ll find rigidity, law, justice, firmness, right? And that is also, those are also truths. Sometimes on the right, it goes too far.

[01:26:01] You get me? In the middle, and we’re just calling it middle from a finite human point of view. God is not in the center. God is the whole of the truth. But we’re finite, so we have to find some way to map it. Right? So in the middle, what you have is You have everything on the right that is true, and you have everything on the left that is, capital T, true.

[01:26:27] You put them together, you have a more whole truth, and truth has to be whole, otherwise it’s not the truth. You have a more whole truth that better reflects the nature and character of God. That’s what being in the center is. Not everything on the right, whether it’s political right or theological right, not everything on the right is the truth.

[01:26:49] Not everything on the left is the truth. Believe it or not, the further to the right and the further to the left, the less and less you’re gonna have the truth. So what’s the center? [01:27:00]Effectively, what is the center? Here’s the center. Okay, here’s the balance. What does it mean to be in the true church? Here it is.

[01:27:06] Here it is. Catholicism is the mind of God and it is the heart of God. The mind of God is what we might think of as the right. I said in another episode, I said conservatives are all head, sometimes to a fault. Liberals are all heart, sometimes to a fault. Catholicism is the mind of God and the heart of God in perfect balance.

[01:27:34] It’s to be in the true church. is to be the embodiment of the whole of what Catholicism is. And my friends, Catholicism is not just doctrine. It is doctrine. It is orthodoxy. Those are not negotiable, but it is more than just doctrine. It is more than just orthodoxy. Catholicism is also The heart of what we see in the Gospels.

[01:28:02] There’s very little doctrine in the Gospels. Doctrine is reflected there, but you’re not going to go to the Gospels and find, enumerated Catholic doctrine. You’re not. Because it doesn’t need to be there. God fleshes all of that out in the letters of Paul, in the Old Testament, it doesn’t, and then he fleshes it out further with the Magisterium of the Church.

[01:28:23] So in the Gospels, you don’t necessarily see doctrine in there. But what do we have in [01:28:30] abundance in the Gospels? What do we have in abundance? Love your neighbor, love one another as I love you.

[01:28:39] Love and pray for your enemies. In the gospel, we see the heart of God in the heart and life of Jesus. That’s what I mean. Catholicism, the true church, it is the mind of God, and it is also the heart of God. It is not one or the other. It is both equally, because that’s what Jesus is.

[01:29:02] It is both equally. And that means, just as Jesus grew in wisdom, sometimes the church will grow in wisdom. Vatican are the church growing in wisdom. Just as Jesus grew in wisdom, not as God, but as a man, as a person, as a as a person, as a human right.

[01:29:24] Catholicism is also to the divine law doctrine. It is that because we see that demonstrated in the life of Jesus. Two, it is faithfulness and piety and it’s also a healthy measure of. Mercy. Not mercy that defeats the truth. Not mercy that overshadows justice,

[01:29:46] but it’s not mercy that overshadows justice, and it’s not justice that ignores mercy. It’s both equally. What is the true church? It is the mind, it is the perfect embodiment of the mind of [01:30:00]God, the heart of God. Demonstrated in the Gospels, in the life of Jesus, and substantiated from the Old Testament, the rest of the New Testament, church doctrine, church teaching, and so on.

[01:30:16] As soon as we break ranks from that center, I’m telling you, error is the next step, wherever you are. If you’re just a little to the left, a little to the right. It becomes a progressively steeper fall into a pit. Unless there is a course correction.

[01:30:36] For me, there was a course correction. For several people that I know, there was no course correction. Some went further to the left. Or they just stopped being Catholic. They just stopped practicing at all. And some went further to the right, a couple of them became Sedevacantists. I’ve seen it, folks, and I’ve experienced it, and I can tell you from experience, from my own personal experience, and things that I’ve observed, I’m telling you, unless there’s a course correction, a sway this way or that way, is the first of progressive steps toward error.

[01:31:11] Leaving the true church and entering the false one, a false one that looks just like the real one. Looks just like it, unless you know what to look for. The devil wants you in the false church because then you’re not a threat to him. Because the false church does not make saints. Only the true church makes [01:31:30] saints.

[01:31:30] And saints are his greatest enemy. So he doesn’t want you to become a saint. He doesn’t give a damn if you keep praying. He doesn’t care if you go to mass every day for the rest of your life. He doesn’t care. In the end, unless you grow in holiness, you are not a threat to him, but he continues to be a threat to you.

[01:31:48] Only saints are a threat to the kingdom of Satan.

[01:31:52] CA: Only the church makes saints. The false church does not make saints. Not even one? However closely it resembles the true church.

[01:32:01] So that’s about what I’ve got for you today. I hope I didn’t offend anyone. If what I said irritated you, I’m begging you, please consider it with an open mind. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m stupid. Maybe I’m crazy. Then what do you care? Right? So what? Just consider what I said with an open mind. I want to encourage you.

[01:32:20] Please support my work by subscribing to my newsletter. It is free and or consider becoming a paid subscriber. It’s 5 a month. It is dirt cheap. It is dirt cheap. 5 a month. You’ll find links to both at the following address. This is this is the portal page to my bio on social media.

[01:32:42] If you’re following me on social media, Click the link in my bio, you’ll find this. If you’re not, here’s where you go. bio. to slash CatholicAdventurer I’m managing so many things. I’m managing so many things, I can’t remember [01:33:00] which one is which. bio. to slash, CatholicAdventurer You’ll find in there, you’ll find like most recent links to stuff that I’ve done.

[01:33:09] You’ll find links to the portal for the podcast, links to the portal for meditations. But at the top, you will find a form to sign up for the newsletter. And you will also find a link to become a paid subscriber. Dead easy. Dead easy. Please support my work. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I’ll tell you This one was this one really worked me to death, but I had a lot of fun doing it And I hope that comes across the microphone.

[01:33:37] I hope you had fun listening to it. Mr. DJ. Let’s get up out of here

[01:33:42] This has been a rockin Sockum episode of The Catholic Experience. Please follow me on X at ForTheQueenBVM. Follow me on Facebook at Catholic Adventurer. Please say a prayer for me and my family. I would really appreciate it. This has been the Catholic Adventurer. God bless you. God be with you all. Signing out of here now.

[01:34:04] Bye bye.

The Pulse news segment, Priest and moral theologian Fr. Peter Dugandzic on the moral implications of IVF, especially in the political sphere. Then we analyze the dichotomy of two churches—the True Church, and the False Church.

Are you ready for a ride? This episode achieves the impossible, bringing you segment-by-segment, from something Fun, to something heavy, to something deep. goes from Fun, to heavy, to deep. News and nonsense pulled apart in the return of this fan-favorite news segment, “The Pulse”

Moral Theologian Father Peter Dugandzic joins me to talk about President Biden’s opposition to the Truth and the Church’s teaching on IVF (In vitro fertilization). What is the Church’s teaching, and why? And can we finally call Biden a heretic now?

Then we analyze the dichotomy of two churches—the True Church, and the False Church. The problems aren’t just modernists or Sedevacantists. Even within the borders of the proper Church there are good people in the “wrong church”

Also, my experience and near-seduction into Sedevacantism as we look at a fake “Pope Michael” of a sedevacantist “Catholic” church.

Major Chapters

  • 00:02:47 – Speed Dating
  • 00:08:20 – Sleep Tourism and “Cocooning”
  • 00:18:12 – Guest Segment, Fr. Peter Dugandzic
  • 00:45:31 – Two ChurchesAre you ready for a ride?

(09:12) Sleep Tourism?
Sleep tourism is a growing trend, and informed consent in transgender healthcare is controversial.

(17:33) Catholic Church’s Position on IVF
Father Dugandzic and I discuss the Catholic Church’s teaching on IVF, including ethical dilemmas. 

(29:44) The Truth in Catholic Communication
The Catholic Church’s failure to effectively communicate moral teachings, including IVF and lockdown responses, and the need for clear language and concepts like Thomas Aquinas’ to express complex theological truths.

(36:32) Defining Human Life and Faithfulness
Biden’s stance on IVF, and the political and moral implications of fertility treatments are discussed in relation to Catholic teachings.

(47:10) Discussion on the fake “Pope Michael” and Extremes in the Catholic Church
Exploring the range of views within the Catholic community, including the case of “Pope Michael” and his successor, with respect and sensitivity.


Speed Dating

“Cocoon” Sleeping

Transgender group’s ‘pseudoscientific’ crusade, ethical abuse

Pope Michael Documentary on YouTube

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