Spiritual Maturity – #33


[00:00:00] Welcome to the Catholic experience, the Catholic podcast. That doesn’t suck.

[00:00:14] Welcome. Welcome. One at all. Welcome to the Catholic experience, the Catholic podcast. It doesn’t suck. I am your host. Catholic adventurer. And I thank you very much for joining me today. 

[00:00:28] We’re talking a little bit about spiritual immaturity. That’s right. It’s a thing. It’s possible to be spiritually immature.

[00:00:37] If it’s spiritual maturity is a thing. Spiritual immaturity is a thing, right? We’re going to talk about it from the perspective of sacred scripture. Yes, indeed we are. 

[00:00:46] And then, or actually before that, sort of to preface the whole thing, I’m going to talk about, um, Uh, an article I found on NC register.

[00:00:55] Basically, we’re going to be talking about the culture of the Latin mass, the TLM culture. Now don’t get your panties in a bunch. Don’t get ready to be offended because I agree and disagree with some things in this, uh, article. We’re going to be talking about that. This is episode, I think 32. Oh, shoot. I should have gotten that straight in my head before we went on the air.

[00:01:17] Recorded July 7th in the year of our Lord, 2024. Thank you. Catholic church. Hi everybody. Hope everybody’s doing good and I’m feeling lovely. It’s a hot day today. I don’t know [00:01:30] where it is by you. Maybe you live in Antarctica. I have no idea, but it’s a hot day here.

[00:01:34] And I’m really feeling it. I don’t expect for this to be a very long episode, um, because I have some things to do and doing long episodes. I just, I just don’t have it in me these days. 

[00:01:46] Hello and welcome to those who catch me live on x on facebook and on youtube, you know at some point I really do also want to Have live shows on Just give me a moment folks while I make an adjustment here I want to have some live.

[00:02:01] There we go. I want to have some live shows on my locals channel If you’re not already doing so, please consider me consider joining me on locals because you can join for free I would really love for you to pay You But you can join for free. You can be a free member and you get some free content. I literally I just posted something today Which is available for free and paid members So you get stuff for free and you get even more stuff as a paid member and I would really appreciate it a quick word about what I posted today, so Today I posted something called Shoot I forget what I called it But it’s basically talking about where we focus our mind is where our heart is.

[00:02:43] Where we focus our mind is where our heart is. Boy, I wonder why that’s so dark, that camera. It’s like really contrasty for some reason. Anyway, where we focus our mind is where our heart is. I made that [00:03:00] available on Locals. The full version is on Locals. I put a very short, less than one minute clip.

[00:03:05] On, on socials, but the full five minute clip is available on my locals channel. Go to catholicexperience. locals. com and you’ll find it. If you’re catching me on the socials, by the way, on this live stream, I don’t ordinarily do a show live because they’re a pain in my ass. , Hey, and you know, what’s great about this podcast.

[00:03:26] I’m the only Catholic podcaster who has no problem with saying live shows are a pain in my ass. Because I keep it real with you. But anyway, , I don’t ordinarily do a show live. , this one today I am because i’m I have the time and I have the freedom to which is nice if you chat I will be able to see what you’re saying in the chat room.

[00:03:46] I think I think i’ve got it in front of me. Let’s see if it actually works , all right, so let’s get on with it So an interesting article I found and i’m going to show it to you on the screen if you’re catching the live video You Oh, P. S. , if you’re catching the live video, you’re only seeing video when it’s live.

[00:04:05] When I put this on demand, the on demand version will be audio only. Only paid members of my locals community will have the on demand video. Okay? So if you’re catching it live, you’re seeing my fat, ugly face, you’re very, very lucky. Or unlucky, it depends on your point of view. And if you’re catching this after the, after the fact, , from my podcast catalog and things like that, thank you for [00:04:30] catching me at all, even just listening to me.

[00:04:33] So an interesting article that I’m going to show on the screen, but I’m also going to read it for the benefit of those who cannot see it. I saw this on National Catholic Register, Agatha Christie letter 2. 0, the traditional Latin Mass as a cultural as well as liturgical treasure. Now before I get into that, I do want to say a couple of things.

[00:04:54] First, and I’m getting real tired of saying this, I am not against the traditional Latin Mass. Years ago, I was a big fat vocal supporter. of the, the continuance and the spread of the, the availability of the traditional Latin Mass. What I find troubling is what some Catholics have done with the traditional Latin Mass.

[00:05:21] And I’m not going to repeat all of that. I’m going to let the article and the, and the, the Pope do that speaking for me because the article and the, and the Holy Father have said. What I have been saying for 10 years about the, the culture of the traditional Latin mass. Now, something positive, I wanna say.

[00:05:41] I understand the need of traditionalists to have the traditional Latin mass, you know, for some time. For some time I wasn’t quite getting it,

[00:05:57] but I have to say I’m a little more sensitive to it [00:06:00] now and a little bit more understanding of it. Because I understand the importance of culture to personal identity, in particular to the identity of Catholics, to Catholic identity, to Catholicity. It is important. I’ve done shows on it. Go back to my podcast catalog, look for two episodes.

[00:06:19] One was called The Trouble with Tradition, and the other was called The Importance of Tradition. So I get it. I do get it. As I analyze my own thoughts and feelings on it, I kind of relate, but I relate differently. I relate to the need of, of a manifest culture to nourish one’s catholicity, one’s identity, right?

[00:06:48] I understand that need where you identify as a Catholic and you need the culture to, to sustain, to shape, to direct. That identity. To nourish that identity. I get that. I don’t need that with regard to the mass, but I get it. I do get it. I understand that it’s beautiful to be surrounded by like minded people.

[00:07:14] You know, when I, well, when I was able to take my family out to eat, which it was an old tradition before I lost my job, we would go out to eat once every week. And, of course, we say grace before meals, even [00:07:30] when we’re out eating in public. My kids sometimes are a little, not these days, but they had been a little embarrassed or ashamed to do that.

[00:07:40] And I said to them, look around you, you see all the people in this restaurant or diner or wherever we were, 90 percent of them are Catholic. They may or may not still go to Mass, but guarantee you, at least a third of them still do. The rest of them, whether or not they go to Mass, they’re still Catholic.

[00:07:58] You don’t look like a nutjob saying grace before meals, and you don’t look like an extremist. If anything, they’re probably a little embarrassed that they don’t have the same courage that you have. But by no means should you be embarrassed, like you’re doing something weird or crazy. Everybody here, 90 percent of the people here, they get it.

[00:08:18] And it’s beautiful, and it’s the truth. It’s beautiful, really, when You’re in a place where everyone thinks like you so I understand the necessity of things like culture. I understand what the Latin Mass brings to your life, to your lived faith experience. I do get it. I don’t need that the way you do.

[00:08:40] That just makes us different. 

[00:08:41] But it is, let me tell you, drama cam please, it is a question of spiritual maturity. It doesn’t mean you’re delinquent. It doesn’t mean you’re crazy. It doesn’t mean you’re foolish. But it is a question, the reason why some Catholics need the traditional Latin Mass to [00:09:00] sustain their Catholicity, it comes down to the question of spiritual maturity, maturity in the faith.

[00:09:07] And we’re going to talk about that today. So the point I was trying to make with all that is, I understand why the traditional Latin Mass is important. I am not anti traditional Latin Mass. What I am, what I have a problem with. Is what some Catholics have done with the traditional Latin mass. That’s what we’re going to talk about today.

[00:09:27] This Agatha Christie letter 2. 0, this article on National Catholic Register, struck me a little, a little weird. I agree with some things in it, I disagree with other things in it., Before we get to that, I want to give this one final disclaimer. I already said I am not anti traditional Latin mass. I already know the traditionalists are going to hang me out to dry.

[00:09:49] They’re going to shout, crucify him, crucify him. I already know that. It doesn’t matter what I say. It really doesn’t matter. I could be Jesus Christ saying the things that I’m saying, traditionalists will still call for my head. They’ll still say, hand me his head on a silver platter. They will still say, crucify him, crucify him.

[00:10:07] I get that. But. I’m going to say what I, what I’m about to say anyway. I am not against the Latin mass. I understand why you need the Latin mass. I understand why you value the Latin mass. I get it. I really get it. And I’m not, I’m not saying there’s something wrong with you. Okay. So let me make that front and center first.

[00:10:27] Secondly, I want to say this [00:10:30] people haven’t, I just can’t believe the pushback. Well, maybe, maybe I can believe it. The pushback I’ve gotten on the last episode of the podcast Uh, Mass Hysteria. I can sort of believe it, and yet, I can’t believe it. Folks, I’m your brother. You understand that, right? I’m not talking to you like you’re a tool.

[00:10:49] At least I hope not. I’m trying not to. I don’t think that you’re tools. I’m not talking to you like you’re a tool, or like you’re less than, or like you’re a heretic. I’m, I’m trying to give you some wisdom that, that, that I’ve acquired over many years. And you can take it or you can leave it. But you really don’t have to insult me.

[00:11:10] And that’s all I’ll say about that. I’m your brother. I’m your brother. So relax. I’m not your enemy. I’m not your adversary. I’m not a secularist. I’m not a pagan. I’m your brother. I’m here to help you. You can take the help or you can leave the help. But what I ask is that you please consider it with an open mind.

[00:11:28] Okay? Consider it with an open mind. Alright. Give me just a second. Give me just a second. As I, uh, get this thing going here. Just want to make sure this is working before I switch, before I switch the camera like an idiot. Okay.

[00:11:46] From national Catholic register, Agatha Christie’s letter, Agatha Christie letter 2.

[00:11:51] 0, the traditional Latin mass as a cultural, as well as liturgical treasure[00:12:00]

[00:12:01] written by father Raymond J DeSouza. 

[00:12:04] Among traditionalist Catholics in England, the Agatha Christie letter is a touchstone of memory. In July, I’m fast forwarding, in July 1971, the Times in London Publish an open letter or petition to Pope Paul VI, asking for permission or an indult to continue the traditional Latin Mass in England and Wales.

[00:12:30] The letter was signed by more than a hundred cultural grandes, I guess. Again, they’re using words I can’t, I can’t pronounce, uh, the TLM in England and Wales. The letter was signed by more than a hundred cultural important people. including novelist Agatha Christie. Now that’s pretty impressive. She was not a Catholic, but she had great esteem for Catholic traditions.

[00:12:53] Fast forward. Pope Paul VI himself, a man of great culture, reviewed the signatories and was particularly struck upon seeing Christie’s name. He granted the quote, Agatha Christie Indult, as it came to be known. Adherents of the traditional Latin mass point to the letter as a recognition that As the 1971 letter put it, the right in quote, the right in question in its magnificent Latin text has also inspired priceless achievements by poets, philosophers, musicians, architects, painters, and so on.

[00:13:27] So, first thing to point out there [00:13:30] is that the traditional Latin mass is culturally important. Keep hitting the wrong button. I agree that it’s culturally important. Because Western culture is Christian culture and Christian culture first and foremost has been Catholic culture. I’m sorry Protestants, but that is just true.

[00:13:43] You know, the Mass does not need things like stained glass windows, beautiful music, incense, all these things that I love and cherish. The Mass doesn’t need them. They make the Mass more beautiful, but the efficacy of the Mass is in the consecration of the Eucharist. And of course, the prayer surrounding and involving that.

[00:14:04] But as long as the consecration of the Eucharist is done, the Mass has effect. The mass does. Okay? Don’t need stained glass windows, statuary, none of that. But all that stuff is important. Why? Because they’re culturally significant. They elevate our minds and our hearts to God. They condition and nourish um, identity.

[00:14:22] Again, go back to those episodes. The trouble with tradition and the importance of tradition. I talk a lot about culture and identity and tradition. So, okay, so we’ve established that, right? Let’s move on. This week, a new letter was published by the Times. The initiative was led by Scottish composer Sir James Macmillan, a Catholic.

[00:14:43] He was commissioned to compose Masses for Popena Guerrera. Macmillan organized the open letter in response to, quote, worrying reports from Rome that the Latin Mass is being banished from nearly every Catholic church, removing from the Life what it calls [00:15:00] a quote magnificent spiritual and cultural heritage Calling this a painful and confusing prospect, especially for the growing number of young Catholics pause Especially for the growing number of young Catholics, you know what he just admitted spiritual maturity is a thing now I Know that what he’s talking about is Catholics who are young in age right But what about Catholics who are in their 40s and 50s?

[00:15:26] Who used to be Protestant, or used to be Atheist, and there are many of them. Aren’t they young Catholics too? Okay, so let’s dispense with this nonsense that first, that the traditional Latin Mass is drawing young Catholics. The Mass is drawing young Catholics. There may be things in the traditional Latin Mass that are particularly drawing them.

[00:15:48] Yes, but the Mass is drawing young Catholics. Young Catholics are hard to find at any Mass. Just because there’s a concentration of them at the traditional Latin Mass doesn’t mean that, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the traditional Latin Mass is drawing young Catholics because many young Catholics are brought there by their families, not on their own.

[00:16:10] Right? Now, there are 20 somethings going to the traditional Latin Mass. That’s true. There are 20 somethings going to a Novus Ordo as well. We can’t say, well, there’s more of them in the traditional Mass than in the Novus Ordo. We can’t say that because Again, you’re talking about a concentration versus the norm.

[00:16:29] A [00:16:30] concentration versus the norm. The traditional Latin mass is going to draw a particular character type by default. Not only that particular character type, but instantly it’s at least going to draw a particular character type. People who are more drawn to old things, people who are more orthodox, or more, I don’t know, It’s not a negative thing.

[00:16:54] It’s just a thing. I’m not saying it’s negative. But it draws a particular character type automatically. Because it’s exceptional. And because of the nature of why it’s exceptional. It’s going to draw a particular character type. Whereas the Novus Ordo will sometimes draw a character type, but mostly it’s drawing people who are just going for the norm.

[00:17:14] It’s not going to draw a particular character type usually. Usually it won’t. Thanks. The traditional Latin mass will, not strictly because there’s something special about it, but because it’s so exceptional. Folks, how many people were leaving Protestantism to become Catholic before the Novus Ordo? The number hasn’t changed much.

[00:17:38] It’s gone a little north or south, but that number hasn’t changed much between pre Vatican II and post Vatican II. Masses, it hasn’t changed much. So it’s not. So in other words, the phenomenon that traditionalists are saying is real at the traditional Latin mass today, we weren’t seeing that phenomenon before Vatican two.[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] So there must be something unique about it today. What’s unique about it today is that it’s so exceptional. It’s so hot against not a negative thing. It’s just a thing. It’s just the science of how it works. That having been said, when we’re talking about younger Catholics, he’s talking about, this person, MacMillan, is talking about younger Catholics.

[00:18:20] But we can’t just think of younger Catholics as being Catholics who are young in age. Catholics who just got baptized or fully initiated into the church a year ago, they’re young Catholics too. I don’t care if they’re 80 years old. They’re young Catholics too.

[00:18:43] They may posture, Like they’re, you know, the same quality as the early church fathers. They may posture that way because they go to a traditional Latin mass and they’ve been Catholic for a year. And so all of a sudden they’re uber Catholic. We’re talking about that today. That’s a, that’s a question of spiritual maturity.

[00:19:00] Talking about that today. Anyway, let’s continue with this, the article. Sorry for my frequent breakaways. Calling this a painful and confusing prospect, especially for the growing number of young Catholics whose faith has been nurtured by it, I agree that this, that the traditional mass can be nurturing to less experienced or less mature Catholics.

[00:19:22] I agree. And sometimes it can be spiritually nourishing for more mature Catholics. I know a couple like that. Yes, I [00:19:30] agree. I don’t take issue with that. The letter specifically refers to the precedent. Of the July 1971 letter, the one that was signed by Agatha Christie. The traditional liturgy is a cathedral of text and gesture, developing as those venerable buildings did over many centuries.

[00:19:49] This is so, this is so British.

[00:19:55] Not everyone appreciates its value, and that is fine, but to destroy it seems an unnecessary and insensitive act in a world where history can all too easily be destroyed.

[00:20:12] I don’t want to say anything that’s going to hurt people’s feelings, but I really have to tell you the truth. If you want to say, that’s your opinion, okay, we can pretend it’s my opinion and that there’s no objectivity to it. We can pretend. This sounds to me like someone who is spiritually immature. And it’s not a bad thing.

[00:20:35] I’m not saying this sounds like a crybaby. I am not saying that. We are all spiritually immature in some ways, and very mature in others. Me too. Believe me. I’m very spiritually immature in some ways, okay? But this sounds to me like spiritual immaturity. First, I don’t want to see the Latin Mass. [00:21:00] Um, done away with.

[00:21:03] That’s for sure. For some of the same reasons he’s stating. But also because it’s a valid mass, and because it’s an important, it’s an important form of the mass. Right? But what he’s saying, not only, not, or what the letter says, not everyone appreciates its value, and that’s fine, but to destroy it seems an unnecessary and insensitive act in a world where history can all too easily slip away forgotten.

[00:21:29] But the history, look. History is important, even history manifested in form. Okay, like art, like a painting, or a form of the mass, or old liturgies that don’t even exist anymore, which nobody gives a damn that they don’t exist anymore, they’re just worried about the traditional. Even old vow liturgies that either don’t exist anymore, or there’s only one of them celebrated in the entire world, nobody cares about those, but okay.

[00:21:58] I understand that history is important, What’s more important to me, and I would say this is my opinion, what I’m about to say is my opinion. I would say what should be more important is the timeless nature of the liturgy itself, in its substance, not in its form. In its substance, not in its form. 

[00:22:20] Listen, when I went to the Marine Corps, I left a very solid mass to go to a really shoddy mess.

[00:22:29] Okay. [00:22:30] The mass that we went to in boot camp was pretty plain. It was very packed because even people who hadn’t gone to church since their first communion, they were going to mass every Sunday in boot camp. It was really plain. It was kind of simple. The priest, again, keep in mind, I came from a very solid Catholic background.

[00:22:57] Not just my family, but the church, the parish, you know. The priest, to me, seemed Silly. Uh, I don’t want to say he was liberal or, no, I, I have to say he was probably kind of on the liberal side. Even at the time, I can kind of, I could kind of detect that. I can’t say the Mass was like, there was, I can’t say there was anything heretical preached from the pulpit, or the, there was, this and that was done wrong in the Mass.

[00:23:26] I can’t say that because I didn’t really have an eye for that at 18. Not, not much, very little. But, that having been said. Let’s say it was a valid mask, which it almost certainly was, but it was a very different mask from what I grew up with. A very, very different mask from what I grew up with.

[00:23:51] But I found a home. First of all, I found respite from the drill instructors. Folks, have you ever seen the movie Full Metal? And [00:24:00] anyone out there who’s a Marine will tell you this, especially if you went to Parris Island. If you’ve ever seen the movie, um, , full metal jacket, do you remember the first part of the movie was where he was in bootcamp?

[00:24:11] Do you remember that drill instructor? Let me tell you something. That drill instructor would have been left off of Paris Island in real life. I know to a civilian’s eyes, that drill instructor seemed like the devil. Maybe he was a devil in training. I had four drill instructors who were tougher than him.

[00:24:30] I am not kidding. I am not kidding. I had four who were tougher than he was. That drill instructor in that movie would have been laughed off of Parris Island. Not bragging and not kidding. That having been said, I found respite from the drill instructors for an hour and change. So that was good. But I also found a home in that I recognized everything that was in the mass.

[00:24:57] The movements, the greetings, the gestures, the responses, the prayers. Yes. Formally because it was still, it was still the same form, but it was a different, it wasn’t as it, the form of the mass was not as rich as what I had come from. So formally it was pretty different. It was in like a big chapel. It wasn’t in this grand church that I had grown up in.[00:25:30]

[00:25:30] So I, I almost felt like it was like at a Protestant church, even though it was a Catholic chapel, but it just, it was, it was, it was purposely made very simple to be a little bit more universalized, even though it had some things like stations of the cross, there was the crucifix and stuff. It had things that was, that were Catholic, but it was really meant for, to be widely available to Christians in general.

[00:25:53] So it was very, very simple compared to where I came from. But there were the stations of the cross. I know what those are. These ones look ridiculous compared to the ones I grew up around, but I recognize these, these images. Those stained glass windows are clearly from the 70s, maybe the 60s. They’re not from the 1800s.

[00:26:17] My church was built in the early 1800s where I grew up. , but I recognize the imagery in them. I recognize the saints in these statues. There’s the Blessed Mother, there’s Saint Joseph, there’s Saint Anthony, yada, yada, yada, and so on. I still found a home there because the substance of what I was experiencing was completely unchanged.

[00:26:43] Did I long for the Mass that I had left when I shipped out to Parris Island? Yes, I did. Yes, I did. But did I resist or reject the mass that was available to me? No, I did not, because I still found a home there. It [00:27:00] took work, it took interior work, right? It took interior work to ignore what I didn’t like.

[00:27:09] For instance, the modern iconography, for instance. And it wasn’t heretical or anything like that, it was just ugly. To ignore what I didn’t like and to focus on the things that I did. And years later Or, as the years progressed, I had to go through that process again, ignoring what I didn’t like to focus on the things that I did.

[00:27:30] For years, I was saying, I don’t even go to Mass for the homily anymore, which I used to when I was younger. I used to, not that I went to Mass for it, but it was a big deal for me. Very big deal was the quality of the preaching. In my, I guess, early 20s. , For a period of years, I just went to mass, not for the, for the preaching, but to be, which was really like bad, but for the Eucharist.

[00:28:00] And I would tell people all the time, I’m only here for the Eucharist. I’m only here for the Eucharist. I’m only here for the Eucharist. Interiorly, I went through this interior process to ignore what was not to my liking, what I did not prefer. Or to ignore what was bad. For instance, um, a really watery homily, or whatever, the random priest inserting something, not changing it, but just inserting something that’s like, I really wish he wouldn’t do that.

[00:28:28] Ignoring that to focus on [00:28:30] what was good. What mattered. What was substantial. That was taking place in my presence. And I was present to experience it. That was a process of spiritual maturation. It wasn’t easy. But what are you going to do? Lord, where else can we go? You have the words of everlasting life.

[00:28:53] I don’t know what you’re talking about. In some ways, I’m a little creeped out by what you’re talking about. But where else can we go? You have the words of everlasting life. I didn’t like the mass in boot camp. But where else can I go? I have to go to mass. And I would have gone to mass, even if my drill instructors were cupcakes, I didn’t go to mass just for the break from the drill instructors.

[00:29:15] I would have gone anyway, but where else can I, I don’t like this mess. Well, what else am I going to do? Not go to mass. And so I was, I was forced just as Peter and the apostles were in a, in a sense forced to stay with Jesus because where else can they go? He has the words of everlasting life. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

[00:29:34] I don’t understand it, but what am I going to do? I was forced to mature, to appreciate and love in the mass what is substantially present and unchanging of the mass. Hm?

[00:29:51] So, not everyone appreciates the value of the TLM. This is the article. The value of the TLM, but to destroy it seems unnecessary and [00:30:00] insensitive.

[00:30:00] And I want to say something in agreement with this. I do agree that restrictions on the mass, as far as I’m concerned, That’s insensitive. It’s insensitive. I have always said this.

[00:30:14] I do not support restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass. I think some Catholics, some, are going to the traditional Mass for the wrong reasons. I believe very firmly that there is a subculture developing around the traditional Latin Mass, very firmly. In fact, that’s not even a suspicion. It’s 100 percent happening.

[00:30:36] But not every Catholic is doing that. Not every Catholic is going there for the wrong reasons. And some Catholics are going there for, in the interest of survival, spiritual survival. All of them will say, I’m going here for my spiritual survival, but for most of them that’s a lie. They’re convinced of it.

[00:30:53] They don’t realize they’re lying, but that’s a lie. But some people, some traditionalists, do need the TLM for their spiritual survival. And then the ones who really don’t need it, but they think that they do, It’s still, as far as I’m concerned, my opinion, it’s insensitive to pull the mass from them manifested in restrictions, because we’re not undoing the mass.

[00:31:16] The mass isn’t being canceled, right? But effectively, that’s what’s happening when you restrict, when you restrict it so tightly. And I agree that that’s insensitive people. There are people, a lot of people, doesn’t matter, [00:31:30] good reasons, bad reasons, doesn’t matter. There are a lot of people who, for whatever reason, feel they need the traditional Latin mass.

[00:31:38] If they err, if their reasons are bad, whatever, that has to be dealt with. They have to be cared through that, nurtured through that. But to just pull the mass from them, I don’t like it. I don’t like it. I just don’t like it. And I’ll say this too, that I think traditionalists will appreciate hearing, but please, traditionalists, don’t use this as a weapon against the Holy Father.

[00:32:07] The Holy Father would never, I don’t think, would never have done this if, if, so if they, let’s say there’s a valid liturgy being celebrated that’s really a pretty liberal liturgy. It’s a valid Novus Ordo, but there are things there that are kind of abusive of the Novus Ordo or whatever, and it’s just, this is the community that the more liberal Catholics go to, right?

[00:32:31] I don’t believe the Holy Father would restrict that Mass. Or He may restrict it. Like this is my suspicion. This is only my suspicion. He may restrict it lightly or just progressively over time. I don’t believe he would have brought the hammer down on them the way he brought the hammer down on traditionalists.

[00:32:48] That’s just my opinion. I don’t think he would have. The Holy father has been a tough cookie across the board, but I do feel like he brings the hammer down on traditionalists maybe because he believes traditionalists [00:33:00] can handle it. I don’t know. I really don’t know. Anyway, I agree that it’s insensitive. I wish the holy the holy father hadn’t done that I agree that there were reasons to do that but There were reasons for for concern but not reasons to do that that I did not agree with and I still don’t agree with it Let’s go back to the article.

[00:33:18] This is taking much longer than it should and I apologize I’m going to fast forward here. I’m going to place a link to this article in this episode’s Description on its on demand page and you can read it for yourself. Okay? How can Rome possibly justify such cruelty? What a spot to jump in on, right?

[00:33:36] Pope Francis will kill the Latin mass. Thompson is a defender of the traditional Latin mass and a fierce critic of Pope Francis. How can Rome possibly justify I don’t know who this guy is, I don’t know what he sounds like, but can we agree that it’s funny hearing those words in this voice that I’m using?

[00:33:55] Are we ready? Here we go again. Hmm. How can Rome possibly justify such cruelty? I have declared Philip my High Counselor. No, no, no. He didn’t say that. If you know, you know. You know where that came from? Okay. One argument used by Francis and his anti traditionalist circle is that the TLM adherents, especially in America, behave like spiritually superior or elite.

[00:34:22] My friends, that is True. Now, I know plenty of traditionalists, uh, [00:34:30] who don’t fit that description or that characterization. But I know many, many, many, many, many, many more who do. That is just true. My problem, though, is that it does not characterize all traditionalists. I think it characterizes, in my experience, the majority of traditionalists I have encountered.

[00:34:53] The great majority. The great majority. But I think it’s fair to say that at least a third to half of traditionalists don’t fit that bill. Maybe a third, if I’m being really honest, based on my experience. Maybe a third don’t fit that bill. And therefore, therefore, we shouldn’t treat it as if every traditionalist is that way.

[00:35:14] Even if there’s one traditionalist who isn’t, then we shouldn’t treat it like every traditionalist is that way. One argument used by Pope Francis was in his anti traditionalist circle. Is that the TLM adherents, especially in America, behave like spiritually superior elites. Can I tell you something, too?

[00:35:34] Let me share something with you. I’ve run into a lot of traditionalists who do fit that bill. And I literally want to laugh when I hear they just became Catholic last year. Or two years ago. Or five years ago. But you would think they are patristic era Catholics. I’ve been Catholic since, since, since Irenaeus.

[00:35:56] Irenaeus baptized me. You would think that by the way they carry on and conduct [00:36:00] themselves. Back to the article. And there’s some truth in this, he writes. The more fervent trads have adopted a form of fancy dress. For instance, the men wear beards and smoke pipes. Their wives dress in conspicuously modest long skirts.

[00:36:15] They sometimes slip into patronizing language that has alienated Catholics who would otherwise be well disposed towards them. Agree. Agree. Agree. Let me take this piece by piece. Well, first, to disagree but also agree, they’ve adopted a form of fancy dress. I don’t think that’s a problem. I don’t think that’s I think for some folks, a costume is fake, right?

[00:36:38] We can agree a costume is fake. For some traditionalists, they dress up and it’s really a costume. They haven’t matured enough to realize it, but it’s really a costume. It’s not who they really are. In my opinion, it doesn’t even represent a piece of who they really are. For a lot of traditionalists who dress up from ass, it’s a costume.

[00:36:56] And for some, it is not. They want to go dressed up because they want to bring their best and yada, yada, yada. It’s, it’s, it’s, you know, we’re meeting with the Lord. So I want to look great. Fantastic. Fantastic. But for a lot of traditionalists, it’s a costume, whether or not they’re aware of it. But for many, it is not side note related, but not important.

[00:37:21] But I do have to say the conspicuously conservative, or I’m sorry, conspicuously Modest long skirts. I have noticed [00:37:30] that and I always wonder what is that? What is that these catholic women are dressing more conservatively than orthodox jewish women Like what is that? It almost seems like It almost looks like they’re so conservative.

[00:37:43] Hey, i’m all for conservative dress. Believe me But it seems like some of these manner of dress is so conservative It’s like you might as well be wearing like three dresses or something like to cover everything. You might as well be wearing a hijab You Some of them are like so conspicuously conservative like I always wonder what yeah, what is that?

[00:38:00] I I agree. I’ve noticed that again. I don’t think it’s a problem People want to dress nice for mass people want to dress conspicuously Quote unquote conspicuously conspicuously conservative. So what? So what leave them be and I I do believe for some of them It’s a costume whether or not they are aware of it, but still so what who are they hurting?

[00:38:18] They have the best intentions Well, I hope they have the best intentions So what The men wear beards and smoke pipes. I have to say about this men wear beards and smoke pipes, one of the reasons I don’t grow a full beard, which I used to years ago, I had one for, uh, uh, uh, I don’t know, a few months. Not, not very long.

[00:38:36] Um, The reason why I don’t do it now, first, I, I guess I’m just too used to the, to this, what I have. But also because beards now are in. I was doing this before it was in. Now beards are in. So now I will never grow a full beard. Because I don’t want to drink the kool aid. I don’t want to be part of the culture.

[00:38:56] I don’t want to fit in No [00:39:00] Pipe smoking i’ve been doing for 25 years. Let me see maybe 20 years I’ve been smoking long before pipes were in like pipe pipe smoking became like a weird fad um, maybe Five or so years ago. I think it came in and went out or it came in and stayed. I don’t know I have noticed The men with beards and smoking pipes, period.

[00:39:25] Also, I have noticed men who go to a TLM who favor beards and pipe smoking.

[00:39:33] Okay, that’s all I’m going to say on that, otherwise I’m going to sound cruel and insensitive and I don’t want to do that. I’ve already said, sometimes what we wear is really a costume. Okay, enough said about that. I don’t think there’s anything wrong if men want to wear a beard. smoke a pipe. But, uh, again, if it’s,

[00:39:54] boy, I just had an image pop into my mind, memory of someone.

[00:39:58] There was someone I knew who had a strange obsession with me and he copied everything about me. What this is years ago. One of the things he copied was the pipe smoking. He also sometimes, you don’t see it because I’m kind of stationary, but I’m a very animated person. One of the things he copied was my, um, mannerisms. I don’t know if you’ve noticed this if you’ve been watching me on the videos, [00:40:30] but you notice sometimes I do this. I kind of squint and close one eye when I’m like, hmm, I don’t think so. He started doing that. Sometimes I’ll do this with my hand. He started, like, so he was doing mannerisms where there is no possible way he got that from anywhere but me.

[00:40:50] One of the things he copied was the, was the pipe smoking. And he was so into the pipe smoking and at a point, he wasn’t just smoking a pipe, but he was smoking it sort of like, um, I don’t know, like leave it to Beaver’s dad, what was his name, Ward Cleaver. Like, you might think of how Ward Cleaver might have smoked a pipe, and his arms crossed, and it was like so, woo, so ridiculous, that’s all I want to say about that, I could speak another hour about that, , weirdness.

[00:41:27] But the reason why that popped into my head is because I have seen traditionalists do similar things, where you can tell by the mechanics of what they’re doing, That it’s absolutely pretentious. It’s absolutely phony whether or not they’re aware of it Sometimes it is the beard I’ll give you an example No, no, let me let me stop with the examples folks, please just trust that I’ve seen a lot of life and i’ve built a lot of wisdom.

[00:41:59] [00:42:00] I’m, not uh, i’m not Incapable of making mistakes

[00:42:07] But usually I have my finger on a pulse pretty well. This is a pulse I have pretty well. There’s a lot of pretense in the traditional Latin mass communities. I’ll give you this example that really gets under my skin. Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost. Folks, Why, why won’t you just say Holy Spirit?

[00:42:30] Because Holy Ghost is traditional. My friends, no one ever in church history said Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost was for the benefit of English speakers. Modern English speakers, it does not exist anywhere in church documents ever. Nowhere in church documents throughout the history of the church will you ever see Holy Ghost.

[00:42:56] That’s for modern English speakers. Modern English speakers say it all the time. Fulton Sheen said it, and all the priests and bishops, and English documents written like in America might say Holy Ghost. But, that’s not a church phrase. Dominus Popiscum, et cum Spiritu Tuo. Okay, you’re just saying, and with your spirit.

[00:43:16] You didn’t say, and with your ghost. Right? Spiritui Sancti, right? Or Sanctu, I can’t remember. Anyway. That’s Holy Spirit. That’s not Holy Ghost. [00:43:30] Holy Ghost, to me, and I say this with all due respect, but it really does get under my skin. I’m not going to lie to you. I love you guys who may do this. I do love you.

[00:43:37] I do. I really, I’m serious. But this really gets, the Holy Ghost thing really gets under my skin because it’s totally pretentious. My friends, there’s nothing authentic about it. There’s nothing traditional about it. And I hate to break it to you, there’s nothing Catholic about it. Well, how do you know it’s not Catholic?

[00:43:54] Because the Catholic Church never said Holy Ghost. And when we’re talking about Catholic Church, we’re not talking about the diocese of this or the conference of bishops in that nation. We’re talking about what we find in sacred tradition, what is reflected in actual church documents from the Vatican, from, um, you know, various pontiffs.

[00:44:16] That’s what we’re talking about, right? They don’t say Holy Spirit. I’m sorry. Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost. If they do, I’m wide open to correction. Please correct me. I’m not, I’m not about being right. I’m about being correct. And if I’m wrong and you correct me, I’m going to love you double. I want to be corrected when I’m wrong.

[00:44:35] I do. But there are some things that are pretentious in the traditional Latin mass culture, but dressing nice. I don’t know why people have to take issue with that. So they dress nice. So what the conservative dress? So what? The beards and pipes. Yeah, sometimes it’s pretentious, but so what a Lot of times it’s not you know, I don’t think he’s taking issue with this.

[00:44:59] I’m just [00:45:00] saying this these are echoes of issues that People have had about the traditional Latin mass community Thompson thinks that those who wish to restrict the TLM Are not so fussed about the mass itself. Get this. They’re not so fussed about the mass itself, but precisely the culture it creates.

[00:45:19] Say it again. Thompson thinks that those who wish to restrict the traditional Latin mass. Let me get this on the screen for you. I apologize. Who wish to restrict the traditional Latin mass. Are not so focused. I’m sorry. Are not so fussed about the mass itself, but precisely the culture it creates. That’s exactly right.

[00:45:40] There is some legitimacy to that view.

[00:45:42] So, let me just touch on that very, very briefly. And people have been asking me this, why is the Holy Father taking the Mass away from us? I don’t think he can, and I don’t think he will. But let’s, let’s just go with that. But why is he taking the Mass away from us? He’s not taking the Mass away from you.

[00:46:03] He’s not responding. Or why does the Holy Father hate the traditional Latin Mass is another form of that question I’ve gotten on, on some YouTube comments. The Church, whether it’s the Holy Father, the Magisterium, your Bishop, the Church does not have an issue with the traditional Latin Mass. The traditional Latin Mass is the Church.

[00:46:25] The Church is concerned, go back to that quote, [00:46:30] the Church is concerned for this reason. Those who want to restrict the Latin Mass aren’t so fussed about the Mass itself, but precisely the culture it creates, and the culture it creates. is a little troubling. Let’s go back to the article. This will be the last bit of the article I talk about.

[00:46:49] When Pope Francis restricted the traditional Latin Mass in 2021, he wrote an accompanying letter to bishops. It is clear that the Holy Father was worried about a certain negative culture developing. Quote, An opinion offered by St. John Paul II and with even greater magnanimity by Benedict XVI. Intended to recover the unity of an ecclesial body with diverse liturgical sensibilities.

[00:47:20] Now, let me just pause for a second. That is very Catholic. That is very Catholic. And even greater, by Benedict XVI, intended to recover the unity of an ecclesial body with diverse liturgical sensibilities. And I’m filling in a little bit. But was it, but was exploited to widen the gaps between Reinforce divergences and encourage disagreements that injure the church.

[00:47:46] So an opportunity offered by the popes, intended to recover the unity of an ecclesial body with diverse liturgical sensibilities, that was exploited to widen the gaps, reinforce the divergences, [00:48:00] and encourage, uh, disagreements that injure the church, block her path, and expose her to peril. To the peril of division.

[00:48:11] My brothers and sisters, you can agree with this or disagree with it, but the first thing you have to understand is that is the reason for why the TLM was restricted. You can agree with it, disagree with it, doesn’t matter for this stage of things, it doesn’t matter if you agree with it or disagree with it.

[00:48:26] That right there is the reason that it was done. Personally, everything that was written, and that’s just a quote from the letter, but everything that was written in that letter, I actually agree with. Because I’ve seen, and Pope Francis is late to the game because I was seeing that 20 years ago, I was warning bishops, ordinaries of dioceses 20 years ago, or inside of the past 20 years, I was warning them about that very thing.

[00:48:54] So as far as I’m concerned, Pope Francis is late to the game. Oh, maybe not 20 years, maybe not 20 years, but maybe 10 or 15 years, maybe 10 or 15 years. I saw these things happening. So again, whether you agree or disagree, I’m, I’m, I’m not here to argue with you. I’m just saying that is the reason why the mask was restricted.

[00:49:24] I’m it’s so pathetic. I’m the most pathetic podcaster in podcasting history. [00:49:30] There’s like new buddy chatting in the, which is all right. It’s one less thing for me to have to monitor. I don’t care that nobody’s chatting, but it’s just really funny. Cause I’m putting, I don’t take it personal. It’s literally funny to me that I’m doing all of this work.

[00:49:47] It’s like nobody chatting. I think people are watching. And if they’re not, that’s okay too. I’m, you know, I’m, I’m just doing what God built me to do, you know. But as I look at this, like as a producer, I’m thinking that is so funny. We have to write a script about that. That would make a really funny sketch or something.

[00:50:06] Nobody in the chat room. It’s kind of pathetic and that’s why it’s so funny. Okay. So I’m going to leave a link to this article in this episode’s, um, description everywhere you’re finding it on demand, whether you find it on iTunes or whatever. Now let’s talk a little bit about spiritual maturity. I can’t believe, uh, this has been going on almost an hour now.

[00:50:30] Wow. 

[00:50:32] I’m going to take a short break. Okay. But. I’m going to play something for you during that break. I’m going to take a quick breather And uh, maybe cool off a little bit turn on a fan or something this is the video I posted, um, earlier. It’s about five minutes. I’m talking in it. I’m talking about. What’s in your treasury? What’s in your spiritual treasury? That’s going to be about five minutes.

[00:50:59] I’m going to roll that [00:51:00] for you. And, uh, then I’ll be back and we’ll talk about spiritual maturity. How’s that sound? Sound like a plan? All right. Excellent. Outstanding. Here we go. We’re on camera, stupid. By chance, I encountered, uh, I ran into three priests and overheard their conversations. Uh, separately.

[00:51:16] Two of them were talking about saints. One of them was talking about something he had read. It sounded like in the Office of Readings. You know what they weren’t talking about? The trial and conviction of canonical crimes of Archbishop Vigano. But a lot of people are talking about this in the Catholic sphere and in Catholic media.

[00:51:35] What comes to mind is something that I say a lot and I try very hard to keep this, um, in my discipline. What has your mind has your attention, or you can reverse that. What has your attention has your mind, and what has your mind has your heart. And that brings me to something Jesus Christ said in the Gospels, Where your heart is, there is your treasure.

[00:51:57] Where your heart is, there is your treasure. What has your attention has your mind, what has your mind has your heart, and where your heart is, there is your treasure. What’s your treasury? 

[00:52:07] What’s in your treasury? Oftentimes, a hint of what is in your treasury It comes out of your mouth. It’s what you talk about.

[00:52:16] It’s what you focus on, because again, in the words of Jesus, out of the overflow of a man’s heart, his mouth speaks. What are the things that you’re focused on, paying attention to? What are the things that you’re talking about? What has [00:52:30] your attention, has your mind, what has your mind, has your heart, and where your heart is, there is your treasure.

[00:52:38] What’s in the treasury of those three priests, obviously, is holiness, holy things. And, it’s important for us to ask ourselves that, what’s in my treasury? What am I paying attention to? Am I paying attention to holy things? Am I focused on holy things? Whether it’s the saints or your day to day life, you know, putting in a good day, serving your family and, or serving others, even serving strangers and so on.

[00:53:03] Those are holy things. Does prayer have your attention? Thoughts of God and thoughts of, of eternal matters. Is that what has your attention? What has your attention has your mind. What has your mind has your heart. Where your heart is, there is your treasure. So what’s in your treasury? 

[00:53:24] Here’s a little homework assignment for you, and I offer this from experience.

[00:53:28] Ask God to reveal your treasury to you. Ask him what’s in there. Lord, what is in my treasury? And I want you to really be prepared for what may be an uncomfortable exploration of what’s in your treasury. Because often we feel like what’s in our treasury is millions of dollars, right? I’m very holy, I’m very learned, I’m very virtuous, whatever it is.

[00:53:56] Sometimes we can feel, oftentimes we can feel like [00:54:00] what’s in our treasury is millions of dollars. But the Lord may reveal to you that what’s in there is is a few pennies for almost every living human being, unless they’re very, very holy, genuinely holy for almost every living human being. What they think they have in their treasury is monopoly money.

[00:54:15] It’s not real money. The real currency in their treasury, probably going to be a few pennies, maybe a nickel, maybe a quarter or two, right? What’s in your treasury? Ask the Lord what’s in there. Ask him to show it to you. And whatever you find in there, I want you to hold on tight to it, even if it’s one penny.

[00:54:34] If this one penny is a real penny and this is what’s mine in my treasury, then I want it. I want to have possession of it. And then ask the Lord, multiply what’s in my treasury. Multiply it many, many times over. Turn this penny into millions of real dollars. Holiness, virtue, righteousness, truth. What you’re going to find in your treasury will be considerably less than what you thought was there.

[00:55:02] If you’re humble enough and you ask God in righteousness and in justice, I really want to know what’s in there. Show me what’s in there. Where your heart is, there is your treasure. What’s in your heart? What is your treasure, really? Because usually what we think is in our treasure up here, it’s not really what’s in our treasure.

[00:55:23] It’s not really what’s in our heart. It might be in our heads. We might come to believe it, but often it’s not going to be what’s in our [00:55:30] heart. Maybe fragments of it will be. Maybe not. Ask the Lord to reveal your treasury to you, to show you what’s in there, and then ask Him to multiply it. Ask him to multiply it.

[00:55:42] What has your attention has your mind. What has your mind has your heart. Where your heart is, there is your treasure. That’s all I have for you. Thank you for listening. God bless you. God be with you all. Please say Hail Mary for me and for my family. Bye bye. Wrong

[00:56:04] song, stupid. What’s in your treasury? What do you hold within you? It comes out of you. It’s informed by what you’re spending your attention on. Are you spending your attention on things that are frivolous? Trivial? Petty? Be careful. Cause that’s how the devil lures you away. What has your mind has your heart and where your heart is therein is your treasure.

[00:56:30] You will be surprised what’s actually in your treasury. You’ll be very, very surprised what is actually in your treasury. Part two, bottom of the show. Catholic experience podcast. I’m so grateful. Thank you. Thankful to you for joining me. , In the, talking about people. Hey folks, don’t insult me. Remember at the top of the show, I was like, folks, don’t insult me.

[00:56:53] I’m your brother with all due respect. Don’t be a fool. Study your faith. [00:57:00] Don’t be a fool. Study your faith. Study the history of the church. Okay. Okay, man. I’ll do that.

[00:57:12] All right. Let’s pay that music out. 

[00:57:13] We’re talking about spiritual maturity and immaturity today. Again, thank you for joining me. If you’re not already doing so, please follow me on X ad for the queen DVM. Follow me on Facebook, a Catholic adventurer. And please consider joining me on Locals. I’m trying so hard to get 50 members.

[00:57:29] It’s unbelievable. It’s like, is there really not 50 people who want to follow everything that I’m doing? Come on, man. It can’t be that bad. CatholicExperience. Locals. com As a free member, you get a little bit more content. As a paid member, you get even more free content. , not free content, but you get even more content as a paid member for five bucks a month.

[00:57:51] Catholic experience dot locals. com. Are you starting to see that I’m running out of steam here? I’m a little bit running, running out of gas. , this, I can’t believe I’ve been on this for an hour now, but the numbers don’t lie. Okay. Spiritual maturity and spiritual immaturity. Let’s get into it. Hit it.

[00:58:07] People have been insulted because there were a couple of clips where I either say it in the clip or I say it in the description. I talk about spiritual maturity. One of the more prominent examples I can give you. Um, there’s a video where I talk about why prominent example one is a video where I talk about spiritual maturity, um, about people who need a mass to be very rich, very [00:58:30] full, very lavish.

[00:58:31] They say, that’s great. But as you grow, I’m paraphrasing as you grow in spiritual maturity, you won’t need all those trappings. People got offended by that. There was a social media post I dropped a few days ago where I said something similar. Transcribed But as you grow in spiritual maturity, all you are going to see is Jesus Christ in the Mass.

[00:58:54] You won’t need the sensual experience of the Mass because you are going to be laser focused on the substance and power of the liturgy. And I said, I wasn’t angry when I said it. I said it very kindly, meekly, I think. People got offended. My friends, spiritual immaturity is real. The fathers have said so. I tried digging up some quotes, I flipped through some books where I thought I had seen this, I tried Googling it, couldn’t find it.

[00:59:30] But I promise you, it’s a real thing. Even the fathers have said so. Okay? Spiritual immaturity is real. Let me give you an example that all of you are going to relate to.

[00:59:44] There were times when you’ve gone to confession, where after you left that confessional, you felt like a load was lifted from your shoulders, right? But at a point, didn’t that stop happening? At a point, don’t you feel [01:00:00] pretty much the same coming out of the confessional as you felt going in, however that was that you felt?

[01:00:06] Where there’s no real change, there’s no real feeling that a great weight has been lifted from your shoulders. That’s because you’re more spiritually mature. Because weight doesn’t have an actual, I’m sorry, sin doesn’t have an actual weight. When you feel free from sin after you go to confession, that’s a grace that God gives to people who need it.

[01:00:33] The, the feeling, not the, everyone gets the grace from, from the, the sacrament. That’s But the feeling that you’ve been freed, that is a special grace for people who need it. You eventually get to a spiritual maturity, a level of spiritual maturity where you never receive that grace again. Folks, if you’re a regular penitent, you know this to be true.

[01:00:59] And for most of you watching this, 99 percent of you are regular penitents. You’re in the box regularly. Once a week, once a month, once every couple months, whatever, but you’re in there more several times a year, right? You know this to be true Same thing with prayer

[01:01:13] You get to a point where you don’t really Let me broaden it in the faith experience you get to a point where you do not experience God Here’s what I mean. You don’t sense Him in your [01:01:30] prayer. You don’t feel a, you don’t feel the same closeness to Him. Or maybe you do, but you have to try harder to get it, you know.

[01:01:39] There’s a point in the spiritual journey where your experience of God changes. It changes. At a point, it seems to disappear. And maybe it comes back a little bit. Maybe it comes back the same. Maybe it doesn’t come back quite the same, but it comes back, and then it seems to diminish again. Maybe it comes back again, and then maybe it seems erased again, and maybe this time longer.

[01:02:08] Your experience of God changes. This is the process of spiritual maturation, maturing spiritually.

[01:02:18] Some saints, Which is horrifying to me. Some saints get to a point where they never experience God again. That’s rather exceptional. For instance, um, well, I, I don’t want to go too far with it. But Mother Teresa, for instance, was in a spiritual dryness, aridity, for 50 years. I don’t, I won’t go so far as to say she never experienced God again, but her experience was dramatically different.

[01:02:46] And from what I can tell, it stayed that way, which, which is horrifying to me. Then at a point, let’s just say, let’s just keep it simple. We’ll say there’s a single [01:03:00] decline, right? Where your, your experience with God is all but erased. It’s like practically erased or maybe totally erased where you don’t feel, you don’t quote unquote, feel him in the mass, in your prayers, anything, but you persist.

[01:03:14] You still go to mass, you still pray and so on. And then as you grow in that maturity and that through that phase of your mature maturation, you begin to experience God, not like you did before, but more deeply, more deeply in ways that require a different kind of focus, a different level of effort. But now you’re experiencing a man, experiencing him mysteriously in ways you never did before.

[01:03:42] And even if it only lasts 30 seconds, that 30 seconds gets you through a week, you know, spiritual maturity. It’s a real thing. 

[01:03:54] Let me take you through some scripture. Okay. 1 Corinthians chapter 1. Actually, I think I wanted to take you to this one first. Yes, I’m going to take you to the first letter of John or the first book of John.

[01:04:14] Chapter 2 verse 12.

[01:04:17] I’m writing to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. Who is he writing to? Anybody? Who’s he [01:04:30] writing to? Were you listening? I’m writing to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. Verse 13. I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning.

[01:04:46] Verse 14, I am writing to you, I’m sorry, still verse 13, I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. Let me repeat verses 12 and 13. I am writing to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning, children, because your sins have been forgiven, fathers, because you know him from the beginning, who is from the beginning.

[01:05:16] I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. Here’s verse 14. I write to you, dear children, because you know the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the Word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

[01:05:41] I would like to offer that he’s not literally talking to children, fathers, and people who are in their 20s.

[01:05:47] John classified the church as children, young men, and fathers. And these children, young men, and fathers have different experiences in their faith life. [01:06:00] The children, their sins have been forgiven on account of his name. Well, that’s true for the fathers and young men too. It’s not just true for the children.

[01:06:08] How are fathers different? Because you know him who, you know him who is from the beginning. That’s true. What about the young men? I’m writing to you because you have overcome the evil one. It’s easy for your sins to be forgiven. Profess faith in Christ, be baptized. Done. But now the next phase would be young men, right?

[01:06:29] Because you have overcome the evil one. You’re more experienced in the faith. You understand what prayers to say, um, what disciplines to apply or to adopt, what spiritual practices to apply. And through these strategies, you have overcome the evil one. But what about fathers? The next level up then, you know him who is from the beginning.

[01:06:55] You know him who is from the beginning. That’s a deeper experience. Just as young men who have overcome the evil one have also, just like the children, have had their sins forgiven on account of his name. Fathers fit the other two categories too. Fathers, their sins have been forgiven on account of his name.

[01:07:18] And fathers have also learned to overcome the evil one. But fathers stand unique, because fathers have come to know God, who is from the beginning, deep. I would [01:07:30] offer that John, here, is outlining spiritual maturity and immaturity. Thank you. Those who are very advanced or very experienced in the faith have a deeper understanding, a wisdom that comes from experience and experiences.

[01:07:50] It’s a perspective that the young men don’t have, and the young men have, have an experience, a set of experiences that the children don’t have. You understand? Knowledge of God is deeper based on experience. And knowledge of God’s word, not just memorizing it, but a deeper knowledge of it. And that deeper knowledge comes with experience, effort, and above all, grace.

[01:08:19] I’ve said in the past, you cannot interpret scripture if you are spiritually unfit. The fathers have said this to the max. And I, I can say this from my own experience, but also because I’ve seen the fathers say it. Several times, okay? You cannot interpret Scripture if you are spiritually unfit. Try as you might, it’ll never come.

[01:08:45] Because first and foremost, it requires a grace. And even if you are in a state of grace, if you are spiritually unfit, you’re not prayerful, you don’t meditate, whatever. I’m not saying you’re sinful, but if you’re spiritually unfit, let me put it [01:09:00] another way. What you receive from Scripture, Okay. We’ll be in direct relation to your spiritual fitness.

[01:09:09] You understand what you receive from scripture will be in direct relation to your spiritual fitness. The more fit you are, the more grace and understanding you will receive. So no matter how, no matter how hard you try, you cannot make it work. You cannot make it happen. God has to do that. You understand?

[01:09:31] So knowledge of God is based on a deep experience. Knowledge of God’s word is also based on that deep experience. So people who are very experienced in the faith are going to see things in scripture that may shock and surprise, maybe not shock, but sometimes, but definitely surprised people who are less experienced.

[01:09:50] The children, quote unquote, children of the faith. And then there’s a natural wisdom and a natural experience that comes as well. Um, I’m making this up. Yeah, you know, I went to confession, and I don’t know, I just didn’t feel like I, I, I just didn’t leave the confessional feeling forgiven. Like, in the past I had felt that.

[01:10:12] Now I know I’m forgiven, but I didn’t feel that weight lift off me. You say, say, you say that to someone like me, or most of you, we’ve experienced that, and we can tell you, yes, that happens. That’s normal. Right? That’s a natural experience. That’s a natural wisdom that comes from a natural experience [01:10:30] or a natural set of, or a set of natural experiences.

[01:10:33] But then there’s also something deeper. That as you progress, there is more that the Holy Spirit gives you. And it often comes at a high price. For some people, the Holy Spirit gives it for free. Um, or maybe it’s a downpay, or maybe it’s a loan that they, that the people who receive it have to pay for later.

[01:10:53] I don’t know. But I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it. It’s, it’s very exceptional, but I have seen it. I’ve seen people, um, come away with wisdom way beyond their years, way beyond their experience in the faith, especially, especially I’ve seen it in the, folks, I have encountered young, young people. 11 to 17, let’s say, yes, as young as 11, who talk like Saints, capital S Saints, even as you, not many as young as 11, but some as young as 11, um, where the things they say and it’s not pretentious.

[01:11:39] It’s not, let me try and sound like a saint. It’s totally who they are. It’s, it’s like Karla Kutis or Kutis. You look at some of the things he says, you’d think you’re reading some of the church fathers, right? I have seen young people like that. Where it’s just, wisdom, way beyond their years, way beyond their experience.[01:12:00]

[01:12:00] It does happen. It’s exceptional. Those, those people are going to be saints. 100%. I believe I’ve met at least 10 saints in my life. At least 10 people who are going to be Canaanite saints, I firmly believe at least 10 I’ve met. Almost all of them young people. Not all of them, but almost all of them. Anyway, off topic.

[01:12:23] So John is telling us here that there is a progression in faith experience in what you put into it and what you get out of it and what you are granted because of it. Fathers not just have their sins forgiven, not only have they learned to overcome the evil one, But they’ve reached a certain depth where they know God who is from the beginning.

[01:12:50] We see from that scripture by itself, there is such a thing as spiritual maturity. My friends, there are people who are evangelizing other Catholics, who became Catholic ten minutes ago. I am writing to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. Children. There are some Catholic, uh, characters who rose to fame and then fell into the dirt.

[01:13:28] Because they were Catholic for ten minutes [01:13:30] and they were going to rescue the church and they were going to tell Catholics the score.

[01:13:38] You might think there’s only one of those, but there are a couple of those. There are a few of those. Not a few who have fallen into a pit, but It’s like a thing now. It’s like a thing. People who are, Hey, I have nothing against Catholic converts and reverts. Please, God Almighty, don’t get me wrong. Don’t get me wrong.

[01:13:56] I have nothing against Catholic converts or reverts. I don’t even have anything against Catholics, Catholic converts and reverts who want to get in front of a camera or get in front of a microphone or get on a soapbox in the middle of a park. I don’t care, but you got to know your role. You got to know your role.

[01:14:14] And I strongly. I strongly advise them, don’t talk like you’re an expert, because I don’t give a damn how many books you’ve read, how many things you’ve memorized. I don’t care. You’ve been Catholic for, tick tock, tick tock, 38 seconds. Know your role and either shut your mouth or temper it. Temper the things that you’re saying, the topics that you’re covering, because you got to know your role.

[01:14:46] Or daughter. Their spiritual maturity is a thing. And the less mature, and the less experienced, are going to experience the truth of God’s revelation, [01:15:00] His word, Jesus Christ, the faith experience. They’re going to be less receptive of truth because they are less experienced. They’re less mature. So when I say things like, You will get to a point where you won’t care which form of the mass you attend.

[01:15:18] You won’t care which church it’s in. You won’t even care if the priest is sloppy, as long as he’s doing everything that he’s supposed to be doing. You won’t even care. You are going to get to that point where all you will see is the substance of the mass. All you’re going to see is Jesus Christ. All you’re going to hear is his word.

[01:15:40] You won’t You will get to that point, but not if you resist it. Can you believe, across social media, there was resistance to that? Folks, it’s just a thing. It’s not my opinion. It’s a real thing. What did somebody say to me earlier? Not to me, but it was a comment. I forget where. I think it might have been on YouTube.

[01:16:03] They said, What’s this absurdity? It’s scriptural. It’s scriptural and it’s patristic. It’s not absurdity. I’m going to tell you a secret. There are Catholics who are so set in their ways, they can give a damn what material you present to correct them with. They don’t care. I have brought Fulton Sheen, material by Fulton Sheen, to correct errant attitudes.[01:16:30]

[01:16:30] It didn’t matter that it was Fulton Sheen. They rejected it. Saint Irenaeus. Didn’t matter. They rejected it. Scripture. Doesn’t matter. Folks, this is the state of the church that we’re in today, and I’m going to say something about that in closing if I remember, but I’m not going to get to that yet. Now, let’s go to Corinthians, 1 Corinthians, verse 1.

[01:16:54] Brothers, I could not talk to you as spiritual people, but as fleshy people, as infants in Christ. Do you need this explained, my friends? At this point, I don’t think you need that explained, right? After we just went through the book of, the first letter of John. Brothers and sisters. I could, in the past, I could not talk to you as spiritual people, but as fleshly people, as infants in Christ.

[01:17:22] So now we’re using the metaphor of a young child, a baby, right? I fed you milk, not solid food, because you were unable to take solid food. Indeed, you are still not quite able even now. For you are still of the flesh. While there is jealousy and rivalry among you, sound familiar, while there is jealousy and rivalry among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving in an ordinary human way?

[01:17:52] Now, he is not talking to pagans.

[01:17:58] He’s talking to Christians in [01:18:00] Corinth.

[01:18:04] For you are still of the flesh. So he is saying that though you are Christian, you are limited in some way. You’re undeveloped in some way, right? I could not talk to you as spiritual people. People who are advanced in spirituality, who understand the depths, who have the perspective, right? I couldn’t because you wouldn’t know what I was talking about.

[01:18:29] Because you were fleshly people. People. So I fed you milk, something easy to digest. Not solid food because you were unable to take it. Folks, can I tell you something? Um,

[01:18:46] we look back on the old church a lot with romantic feelings, with nostalgia, and we think, boy, that’s when the church was really the church. I understand all of that because I am super nostalgic. I believe I was born too late. I should have been born like in the 20s or 30s, the 1920s or 30s. Um, or, hell, take me back to the 1800s, I’m good there too.

[01:19:20] But, I’m super nostalgic, I want to live in a Bing Crosby movie, I want to be Leave it to Beaver, all of that stuff. I’m, I’m, really, I’m not poking fun. I, I mean this [01:19:30] very, very seriously, I’m not poking fun at anybody. I see the value of that old church, the church of the, you know, 18 and early 1900s, you know.

[01:19:42] I do, I really do. But, I have to tell you. You’d be surprised how much milk Catholics were being fed because they weren’t ready for spiritual food in the 18 1900s. You’d be surprised how much milk. Now, there are Catholics today who look back at that milk and they say, look at the real food we were being given.

[01:20:04] Some of it was milk. I’ll give you an example. This may shock the hell out of you. Twice, Hulton Sheen Referred to the concept, to the incarnation, or to the birth of Jesus. Um, wait, let me make sure I have my, my, I mean, this is true, but I want to make sure I have the details right. Was it the incarnation? No.

[01:20:27] Yes. Twice, I heard Fulton Sheen say the Immaculate Conception in relation to the incarnation. I was going to say the birth, but that’s wrong. The incarnation. Let me repeat because I’ve been broken up here. Twice I heard Fulton Sheen say the immaculate conception in reference to the incarnation of Jesus or to the virginal birth of Jesus, the incarnation and virginal birth of Jesus.

[01:20:56] We know that’s not the immaculate conception, right? [01:21:00] Well, didn’t Fulton Sheen know that? Of course he did. Well, why did he, why did he say the immaculate conception in reference to Jesus? Because that’s how people understood it. So these were in two talks. Let me tell you, I’m on camera now, so I can, well, for those of you who are watching me on camera, I can show you this.

[01:21:20] I have a Fulton Sheen app. Shoot. It’s in a Catholic folder. Shoot, I can’t find it now, it’s going to waste too much time. I was going to show you the evidence. I have a Fulton Sheen app, and in two of those talks, he refers to the Immaculate Conception in reference to Jesus. Shoot, He knows the Immaculate Conception is about the conception of Mary.

[01:21:44] So why did he say it that way? Because he knew people would understand the larger point he was making. He wasn’t teaching about the Immaculate Conception. He was teaching about something bigger, that only, in a small part, he had referenced the Immaculate Conception, or he had referenced the Incarnation and virginal birth of Jesus.

[01:22:04] He wasn’t teaching about the Immaculate Conception, but still, He used the term that he knew the people would understand, rather than have to teach them what the Immaculate Conception really is, rather than to have to teach them the theology behind the virginal birth and the incarnation of Jesus, which can take some time, he just used the term that they understood so he can continue to his larger point.

[01:22:28] He was feeding them milk because they [01:22:30] weren’t prepared for solid food. Brothers and sisters, Holy Ghost is not solid food, it’s milk. It’s milk. It’s not solid food. Holy Ghost. In fact, it’s fake milk. It’s almond milk. Holy Ghost.

[01:22:47] There is a lot that came to us from the church. Culturally, from the church. I’m not talking about doctrine. I’m talking about cultural things. That we see it now as, or there are some who see it as solid food. It was actually milk, and you just didn’t know that. You were given, you, me too, okay? By you, I mean all of us in the Catholic culture.

[01:23:17] We were given milk because that’s what we could digest. Solid food would have been harder to digest. Let me give you an example of solid food that’s hard to digest. The Novus Ordo Mass. It’s solid food. It’s hard, it’s harder to digest a mass that forces you to connect with God without the assistance of the trappings.

[01:23:45] And I know the traditional Latin mass is more than just the trappings. I know. But let’s stop kidding each other. Let’s stop kidding each other. If the traditional Latin mass were in English, [01:24:00] but all the prayers were the same, but it was in English, and had none of the trappings. You would never go to a CLM again.

[01:24:07] Let’s stop kidding each other, okay? If the traditional Mass was celebrated in English and it had none of the trappings and it had none of the kind of militaristic movements and I like that. I was in the military. I love the militaristic movements. Let’s say none of that is there, but all the prayers are the same, it’s celebrated at Orientum, but it’s celebrated in English and everything.

[01:24:32] In, in almost every way, it would resemble a Novus Ordo, except for the fact, except for the, like, the form of the Mass, right? You would never go to a traditional Mass again. Let’s be honest, my friends. Let’s be honest. If it were not so distinctly culturally Catholic, you would never go to a traditional Latin Mass, and any of you saying, yes, I still would, you are being dishonest with yourself.

[01:24:58] That’s my belief. And that’s, and it, I assure you it’s a very well informed belief. Could I be wrong? Yes, I could be wrong. And if I’m wrong, for you, like, you might be someone to whom that does not apply. I’m sorry, then. I’m sorry to include you in that. I’m sorry that I did that. But I strongly believe that it is so.

[01:25:19] The Novus Ordo Mass, if you study the history of the liturgy, you will see a lot of the early Mass in the Novus Ordo, where you will not see it in the TLM. [01:25:30] My friends, that’s just the history. That has nothing to do with opinions.

[01:25:34] There was someone else on YouTube. YouTube is a freaking cesspool of rude people, I have to tell you. Telling me to ch Study my history and this and that. Okay, so there was someone telling me, that’s how they started the comment. Study your history. The traditional Latin mass is 2, 000 years old. No it is not.

[01:25:56] The traditional Latin mass is not 2, 000 years old. The apostles were not speaking Latin. The traditional Latin mass, I think, was from like the 1570s, something like that. Not 2, 000 years ago. Anyway, I forget why I got into that. The Novus Ordo is an example of solid food. It is the mass in all of its substance.

[01:26:21] And so is the traditional Latin mass is the mass in all of its substance, too. But in the Novus Ordo, you have to have an encounter with God without the assistance of the trappings. And that can be, for many, solid food that’s harder to digest. I say this as someone who loves the trappings, grew up with, I grew up in a Novus Ordo Mass, but with all the trappings, very, very, very solid.

[01:26:43] I grew up with all that ice. I understand the value of it. I love it. But I’ll tell you, I still love going to Mass. But the Novus Ordo, without the trappings and all this stuff. Which, the Novus Ordo can be very, very nice, and all the trappings and involvement and stuff, but [01:27:00] often it is not done that way.

[01:27:03] It’s done solid, illicitly, all that stuff, but it’s not done with all the dresses and, you know, it’s not dressed up and, and so on. That’s solid food. Harder to swallow, but it’s, it’s just as or more nourishing. Back to the scripture. Brothers, I could not talk to you as spiritual people, but as fleshly people, as infants in Christ.

[01:27:25] Folks. St. Paul is calling people infants in Christ. That’s not me who makes this stuff up. St. Paul himself has said it.

[01:27:38] I fed you milk, not solid food because you are unable to take it. Indeed, you are still not able even now. Folks, lots of people that I’m trying to teach and help and inform and share my experience with, they’re still not able even now to take what I’m giving them. That’s okay. I’m not responsible for your taking it.

[01:28:00] I’m responsible for offering it to you. I feel God wants me to offer it to you. That’s what I’m doing. What you do with it is entirely up to you and Be at peace Go in peace and be at peace and I love you. I truly do you think you think I do this out of love of self? I’m doing this because I love you. I truly do I’m like fanatic about you Honestly, I swear this is the truth.

[01:28:23] I love my brothers and sisters in christ. I’m fanatic about you You And when I say I believe most of you are going to be saints, [01:28:30] whether canonized or not, I believe that. I really believe that. That’s not marketing speak. What am I getting out of this? Nothing. I get nothing out of this. Nothing. This only costs me.

[01:28:39] I do this because I love you, I’m fanatic about you, and I truly believe I’m talking to saints. Maybe not 100 percent of you, but a lot of you. I truly believe I’m talking to saints. So, whatever you do with what I’m offering you, that’s on you, and I’m at peace with it. And I

[01:29:01] But a lot of what I’m trying to share, people are not able to digest even now. There are people who are infants in Christ, they’re not even young men, they’re infants in Christ. What they see themselves as coming directly from the patristic era of the church’s history. And don’t you dare tell them that, because they will shout, crucify him, crucify him.

[01:29:25] That’s where we are.

[01:29:29] For you are still of the flesh, while there is jealousy and rivalry among you. 

[01:29:36] My brothers and sisters, we are seeing this, what I have called mass hysteria, and it’s not just about the traditional Latin mass or the Novus Ordo, it’s, it manifests that way, but it’s, it’s in other places in the Catholic culture.

[01:29:51] Rivalry. Jealousy. You are still of the flesh. Why? Because in the [01:30:00] modern church culture, people are diseased by secularism. They have turned the church into a political party. They have turned the church into a social club. On the left and on the right. Everything is about power. Why can’t I be, I’m a woman, why can’t I be ordained to preach?

[01:30:20] Everything is about power. Everything is about self. Everything is about glory. Human glory. 

[01:30:29] Indeed, you are still not able, even now, to take the solid food I am giving you. Not me, this is the scripture. To take the solid food I am giving you. For you are still of the flesh. In other words, they still want earthly things. And they bring their earthly desires, their fleshly desires into the church, into the faith experience, into Catholic culture.

[01:30:54] My dear brothers and sisters, you do not have to look far. You are surrounded by it. Even in Catholic media, even in independent Catholic media. Verse 4. Whenever someone says, I belong to Paul, in another, I belong to Apollos. Are you not merely human?

[01:31:14] I’m sorry that I look like I’m going to drive this in like it’s a knife, but this one really pisses me off. I’m just going to read, not the phrase, not the verse, but I’m going to reword it. Whenever someone says, I belong to Father Altman, I [01:31:30] belong to Father so and so, I belong to Bishop Strickland, or I belong to Bishop, Archbishop Vigano.

[01:31:35] No. Are you not merely human? This is all over the church. I belong to this one. I belong to that one. They may not say I belong but you know I’m aligned with this one. I’m aligned with that one. This one is my guy. This one is my guy Are you not merely human? Oh, but when when I say that They call for my head.

[01:31:56] That’s okay But this is an attitude that is human it’s a fleshly temperament or disposition rather It’s an earthly temperament and a fleshly disposition. It is not spiritual. It is not Catholic. Saint Paul has said so, and in a certain sort of way, Saint John had said so. Spiritual maturity is a real thing, and therefore spiritual immaturity is a real thing, and we all start there.

[01:32:31] We all start at spiritual immaturity. Some of us, in some ways, stay immature. Not in total. For instance, you can put me in any mass, any form, any language, any church, I don’t care. I am at mass. And I will love it the same. That’s a spiritual maturity that I have. There are ways in which I am spiritually immature, which nothing comes to mind now, but I know that, I [01:33:00] know that it’s true.

[01:33:00] There are ways in which, I could recite my last twelve confessions to you, if I had to. There are ways that I am spiritually immature. I’m aware of that. In some ways, I will advance immaturity, and in other ways, there will be sticking points where I never quite reach spiritual maturity by the time I’m dead.

[01:33:21] I don’t know what those things will be. Only God knows. What I’m saying is, spiritual maturity and immaturity is a real thing, and it happens, it manifests in segments, not just the whole. Not just the whole. Have you ever known someone who is very spiritual, very spiritually mature, and you could tell by their demeanor and, and the things that they say, and you could tell, but there was one thing that you were like, damn, I didn’t expect that person to behave that way.

[01:33:50] Right? For instance, um, there was this one priest I knew. That priest, there is no cause for his sainthood, there may never be. But if that priest is not a saint, is, did not like go to heaven like 10 minutes after he died, I would be shocked. Because that priest had all the markings of a saint. You would not expect that priest to go, you dumb son of a bitch! But he did. Not to, uh, not to me, but on the road while he was driving, he lost his temper and he shouted, You dumb son of a bitch! [01:34:30]And you would never know that that, forget the words that he used, you would never know that that outburst would have come from him.

[01:34:37] It’s a spiritual immaturity. Well, there’s an immaturity I have because I can see myself doing that. The point I’m trying to make is, Spiritual maturity is a thing. It is a whole, but it’s also fragmented. Everyone is going to have spiritual maturity stuck to them until they are dead. In one of the minor ways, one of the smaller manifestations, or granular manifestations of it.

[01:35:02] It is a whole, but it’s also granular.

[01:35:06] We are in an era of the church where God is calling us and in some ways forcing us into a spiritual maturity that many of us don’t want.

[01:35:15] Go back to an episode that I keep referencing, um, an episode in my catalog called, uh, Tradition and the Desert. In that episode, I talk about how the Jews were brought through the desert for 40 years, first as a punishment, but also to strengthen them, to prepare them to take the land that the Lord was giving to them, and I explain why we are going through a similar period in the church today.

[01:35:44] A period of purging and punishment, but also a period that strengthens us in preparation for what’s coming next, likely something good. In that episode, I also explained that many people, instead of traversing the desert, they’re [01:36:00] stopping. They’re setting up a big, beautiful tent to shade them from the sun and they’re laying out in the breeze and they’re like, no, I’m not, I’m done traversing the desert.

[01:36:10] I’m cool right here. You’re going to miss the boat, my friends. The temptation is great to shield ourselves from the sun. The temptation is great to stop at every oasis or to stop at the next oasis and to just stay there forever. Temptation is great. God wants us to be tempted, but he doesn’t want us to fall to that, to those temptations.

[01:36:37] So much of what we can experience In the depths of the Catholic faith today, it’s easy to go to mass once a week, go to confession once a year. The basics are easy,

[01:36:50] but to get deeper than the basics, it’s a lot of food where in the past we were used to milk. Maybe I’ll do an after show about that. I’ll, maybe I’ll get some examples together of ways in which I think individuals are offered food where we used to be offered milk and ways in which the church was giving us.

[01:37:09] Milk before but is giving us food now food. That’s harder to digest. Maybe I’ll do an after show about that I have to do some preparing for that. I can’t do that one off the top of my head The after show will be available only to paid members of my locals community, by the way Catholic experience that locals calm Usually for every podcast [01:37:30] episode I do usually there will be an after show Doesn’t come right after the show usually happens the next day or something.

[01:37:36] All right, anyway In a lot of ways, the church and God are offering us milk, I’m sorry, are offering us food where we have been used to milk for a few hundred years. I don’t just mean the mass, I mean a lot of things in the faith experience. I see it all the time when people are, I see all of the time that people, I’ll give you an example, the church’s position on the death penalty is a lot more complex than just protect the innocent.

[01:38:08] It’s, it’s very layered, a lot more complex. When the Pope revised the catechism, I think is what he did, he revised the catechism to say that the death penalty is out. No more death penalty. I was very surprised at how many people thought that he changed church teaching because what the church’s teaching is today is what it has always been.

[01:38:34] I knew that. But the church gave you milk. The death penalty is okay as a means to protect the innocent. Well, even when that was in the catechism, quote unquote, the church knew there was more to the story than that, but they knew that you couldn’t handle it. And they were correct, because people today can’t handle it either, right?

[01:38:56] They knew you couldn’t handle it, not because you’re dumb, but because it’s [01:39:00]layered. It’s complex. You weren’t prepared for the full story. Even me, I didn’t get the full story from the catechism. I think I got the full story Because I had read things from Augustine I’ll tell you the truth. I don’t know why I knew that the church is teaching.

[01:39:17] The church’s teaching has always been this The death penalty is okay. Only if it’s the only means to protect the innocent Only if that is the only way to protect the innocent That’s the only way that the death penalty is okay The thing is, today, you don’t have to kill somebody to protect innocent people.

[01:39:39] You can put somebody away indefinitely and let them die naturally. So let’s say they’re 50 now, they’re gonna die when they’re 75, well now they have 20, if they’re in life, in prison for life, they have 25 years to repent, to convert, to change, to save their souls. But if they’re executed at 50, their time is over.

[01:40:01] Right. There’s no chance of their conversion. We can put people in prison today for the balance of their life in such a way where we separate them from the innocent very, very, very reliably, very reliably

[01:40:18] in the past. That was not. So, okay. If you were in a prison in like the 1500s, you could be broken out pretty, pretty easily. People were during the inquisition. There were people, there [01:40:30] were criminals who broke out of their prisons. To sneak into the Inquisition prisons because the Inquisition prisons were more lenient Did you know this this was happening?

[01:40:43] So Today it’s possible to protect the innocent Just by incarcerating someone with the modern options. We have available to us today that we didn’t have 50 years ago 100 years ago 500 years ago So the Catholic teaching, it’s okay to, the death penalty is okay if it is the only means of protecting the innocent.

[01:41:04] That has not changed. What has changed is now we can protect the innocent without having to kill the guilty. That is what, is what’s changed. That has always been church teaching, or the church’s understanding of the death penalty, at least since Augustine. I know for sure Augustine has said that. Thank you.

[01:41:21] Amen. At least since St. Augustine, that has been the church mind on the death penalty. But it’s layered, it’s complicated. It’s more complicated than, is it okay to kill the guilty, if someone’s guilty. It’s more complicated than that. In the past, there was no need to get more, to get deeper into the subject.

[01:41:43] The church at the local level, or even I guess the church in general, the manifested in the catechism. The church was giving you milk because you weren’t prepared to digest the solid food. Now the church is giving the people solid food and people are still rejecting it. There are a lot [01:42:00] of things like that going on today.

[01:42:03] Where the church appears to be changing things for the worst when actually the church is giving you solid food. But this isn’t what the church was in 1955 and I’m not saying that in any way to ridicule anybody. That was, that was America’s greatest era, was 55. And it was a great era in the church. This is not what the church was doing in 1955.

[01:42:26] I know, sweetheart, but the church was giving you milk in 1955, or 19 whatever, before Vatican II. The church was giving you milk. Now the church is giving you food. But people don’t understand that. Which is understandable. The only reason I understand some of this stuff is because I’ve been reading and studying for 30 years.

[01:42:44] Literally. And I’m not bragging. I’m just very saturated in this stuff. Church history, church thought, etc. I am very saturated in this stuff, so I understand it. It’s not because I’m brilliant, it’s because I’m very saturated in it. Most people, understandably, are not. But when the Holy Father says, here’s some solid food, listen, just take it and trust it.

[01:43:04] It’s solid food. If the magisterium says, here’s some solid food, just take it and eat it. It’s solid food. You can, you can trust it, but it’s not, it’s not what the church was giving us, whatever, a hundred years ago, because that was milk. This is solid food. Just take it and eat it. When you have learned to just, when you have learned to do that, you have grown in spiritual maturity.[01:43:30]

[01:43:31] As long as we refuse the solid food, We will remain spiritual infants. Don’t throw the stone at me. St. Paul was the one who said that,

[01:43:42] man, this has been a really long show. Almost two hours. But you know what that means? That means I have to review and edit a two hour show. You think the fun is over. I still, I still have work to do on this man. Oh man. Thank you for joining me. And this is a special one too, because I was doing this one live.

[01:44:05] Hello to those of you catching me on Facebook, YouTube, and everywhere else, and especially those of you catching me on Twitter. I think my biggest fans are on Twitter, because that’s the, uh, the platform I’m most active on. You can follow me on Twitter at ForTheQueenBVM. Please, please, please, I’m begging you, join me on Locals.

[01:44:23] Catholic experience that locals dot com All other relevant and important and special and Cute and cuddly links i’m going to put in the description down below. This has been the catholic experience. I’ve been your host the Catholic adventure somebody give me a lord have mercy, baby Thank you for joining me.

[01:44:42] God bless you. God be with you all See you next time on a rebound god be with you all. Bye. Bye

Having encountered resistance to my statements about spiritual maturity as related to the mass I take some time to talk about spiritual maturity and immaturity from a biblical perspective, kicking off with a mixed-feelings reaction to a related news article about TLM culture.

This show was loaded with breakaways that aren’t boring, and anecdotes that aren’t inane. Spiritual maturity and immaturity are real conditions. I fear many in the Church are trapped in spiritual immaturity, and may sadly  even be content with it. I hope to encourage listeners to be better than that. Starting things off with an article on NC Register about British Catholics fearing the rumored cancelation of the Traditional Latin Mass, I get into the theme of spiritual maturity contrasted with spiritual immaturity from a scriptural and historical Catholic perspective. The discussion begins with an analysis of the culture surrounding the Traditional Latin Mass, critiquing the subculture without opposing the TLM Mass itself. The episode also explores the difference between ‘milk’ and ‘solid food’ in Catholic teachings, using examples such as simplified teachings from Fulton Sheen and the contrast between the Traditional Latin Mass and Novus Ordo Mass. The evolving teachings on the death penalty are highlighted as an instance of the Church’s complex and layered guidance. 

Article Read in this episode:
“Agatha Christie Letter 2.0: The Traditional Latin Mass as a Cultural, as Well as Liturgical, Treasure” 

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