The Church is Not the Point

[00:00:00] CA: Welcome. Welcome. One and all welcome. Once again, let’s get that audio fixed. Here we go. Welcome To the catholic experience by me the catholic adventurer That’s right. I said V, not a V.

[00:00:19] Really? One of many if I’m being truthful. So thank you for joining me today. We’re talking about the church is not the point. Francis is not the point because Francis is not the church. Cardinal Burke is not the church. Bishop Strickland is not the church, and the church is not the point. So what is the point?

[00:00:41] Talking about that today at the top of the show, getting right down to the nitty gritty and the meat and potatoes toward the bottom of the show. I’m going to talk about what is conservative and liberal in the cath in Catholicism or in the Catholic Church, I guess. What is conservative and liberal in the Catholic Church?

[00:01:05] The reason I bring that up is because I responded to someone on X a little earlier. And they were reposting something I don’t exactly remember the context. Basically it was rooted in the question of Pope Francis orthodoxy and conservatism. Is he orthodox? Is he conservative? I think it was like asking for people’s opinions and thoughts.

[00:01:29] And I [00:01:30] said, well he’s definitely orthodox. I don’t know if I would use the word conservative. I said I’ll talk about that in, in a podcast at some time because I think it’s really important. And I decided I was going to, you know, I did, I said that today and I decided might as well talk about it in today’s episode.

[00:01:45] So the main point of the show is the church is not the point. So what is the point and why should we remember that? Why should we try so hard to keep that in the foreground of our thoughts and of our being? What’s the whole point? If the church is not the point, what is? This will be a subscriber only show, so 

[00:02:07] If you are listening to this on demand, then that means you’re a subscriber and I thank you very much For for your subscription, you’re helping me to support my family.

[00:02:16] You’re supporting my work. I’m working very hard. And your five bucks a month is greatly appreciated. In the writings of the church, you hear very little about the church. I’m talking about the writings from saints, talking about scripture, the writings of the ecclesial church. 

[00:02:39] You hear very little about the church. That might surprise you. Now, obviously, The church has meaning. The church is a real thing. It’s I guess you might say it’s the foundation on which everything is built. The church is a thing. It’s not a concept. So you naturally will see some things written about it.

[00:02:59] You’ll [00:03:00] see it in scripture. You will see it in some writings of the saints and church fathers. You’ll see it written or spoken about by popes and so on. You’ll see writings of things like, or writings about things like Doctrine, canon law, the institution of the church, the divine organism, and the human institution.

[00:03:20] You’ll hear things about the church in those ways. But in the grand scheme of things you, you hear very little or you see very little said or written about the church. Much more is written about The faith. Much more is written about the faith. Not as the object, but as the path. As the path to what the object, the point, really is, which is holiness.

[00:03:47] If you like, you can scratch out the word holiness and replace it with Jesus Christ. But then you have to give that some consideration. Why is Jesus Christ the point? , most of you hearing that are going to say, well, I know why Jesus Christ is the point. You have to go deeper than the obvious.

[00:04:04] Most people will settle on the obvious, Jesus Christ is the point because he suffered and died for us yada, yada. All that is true, but go deeper than the obvious. That’s what we’re going to do a little bit today.

[00:04:15] So, if you have experience with, the writings of the church. You will notice that, as I said, very little is written about the church. I remember sometime, oh boy, it was a long time ago, and I was looking for quotes from St.

[00:04:29] [00:04:30] Augustine about the church, because I could have sworn that he had said something About the chur I mean, something like, like, important, you know. He was saying something, he wrote this, probably in his confessions. He was writing it to God about the church. The specific thing that I could swear I saw quoted by him, I could never find.

[00:04:53] But it stuck out to me that in all of my, in all of my searching, whether in physical books or searching on the internet, I found very little that he actually said about the church. Compared to what he says about everything else, the Catholic experience, the Catholic faith Catholic, ultimately what we’re talking about, what he was talking about was Catholic philosophy and Catholic theology.

[00:05:19] He said very little about the church by comparison. If you look for quotes from saints and church fathers, you’ll find, and I just flipped through a few books and things and dug a few out. But let me I think this is totally random stuff, but let me read some things to you. By Tertullian, the flesh feeds on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God.

[00:05:50] Tertullian was a church father. Obviously, he would have had a lot to say about the church. But by comparison, he wrote little, very little about the [00:06:00] church.

[00:06:00] Whoever perverts the sayings of the Lord for his own desires. This is this one I focused on, I was like, oh, I definitely have to include this one. So, listen to this one. This is by St. Polycarp. In 66 well, he was born in 66 AD. I don’t know when he wrote it, but anyway. Whoever perverts the sayings of the Lord for his own desires and says that there is neither resurrection nor judgment, Such a one is the firstborn of Satan.

[00:06:28] Wow. Let us, therefore, leave the foolishness and the false teaching of the crowd and turn back to What do you think he said? Let us leave the foolishness and the false teaching of the crowd and turn back to What? I have news for you. He does not say the church. Let us leave the foolishness and false teaching of the crowd and turn back to the Word.

[00:06:54] Which was delivered to us in the beginning, the word. I think he is talking about scripture, I think he is talking about tradition, but I think he is talking about Jesus Christ.

[00:07:08] Let me dig up a few more for you. No one can have God for his father who has not the church for his mother. Aha! We found something about the church, St. Cyprian of Carthage. No one can have God for his father who has not the church for his mother. But even in this context, what is Cyprian [00:07:30] saying in his framing here?

[00:07:32] That the path to God is the church. The church is the means to God, or to Jesus, you might say. The church is the means, not the end. The Not the object, but the path. So even when Cyprian talks about the church here, he’s orienting it to God. To something higher.

[00:07:52] God hates those who praise themselves. St. Clement of Rome. Patience is hope with the lamp lit. Love that one. Also Tertullian. You cannot put straight in others what is warped in yourself. St. Athanasius. Are you seeing the pattern? Are you seeing the theme? And this is true of the Church Fathers, the writings in the New Testament, Paul and others.

[00:08:18] And, in the New Testament you will see treatment of the Church. But mostly, you will see from Scripture, from the Church Fathers, from other saints, they’re talking about holiness. They’re talking about holiness. They’re talking about principles and ethics, and how to live a good and holy life, and so on.

[00:08:39] They’re talking about holiness. They talk very little about the church. There are some, really, one, one predominantly, who’s always talking about teaching the authentic Catholic faith. Where this is their mission. They teach the authentic Catholic faith.

Authentic Man, Jesus

[00:09:01] [00:09:00]

[00:09:01] CA: And I see that a lot everywhere. Where people are talking about the church. Authentic Catholicism. Real Catholicism. The authentic faith. You want to talk about authentic? You can’t get more authentic than Jesus Christ. Why? Because Jesus Christ is who we were supposed to be before the fall.

[00:09:21] Jesus Christ is a man of flesh and blood. A man with a soul. Of course he’s God and everything, but let’s leave that aside for now. Because we can’t operate on that level, right? We’re trying to find the common denominator. Jesus was a man of flesh and blood and bone. He had a soul, an intellect, and a will.

[00:09:43] And he came into, I don’t want to say being, because that’s really theologically messy. He was incarnate outside of sin. God cannot come into being, but the man, the body that Jesus had, that came into being, that’s the incarnation. the incarnation happened outside of sin. So Jesus Christ is Authenticity.

[00:10:07] He is absolute, capital A, Authenticity. Why? Because He’s the authentic man, and because He, as God, He is authentic being. God is not a supreme being. God is being itself. Jesus is not an idea. He is truth itself. So if we’re talking about authentic faith, authentic church, authentic anything, it is [00:10:30] Jesus Christ.

[00:10:31] The thing about this authentic man he subjected himself to the fruits of sin. By suffering and dying for us. He surrendered himself to the realm of sin by suffering and dying for us. By allowing his blood to be shed. By taking on sin. He who is outside of sin. So, when we’re talking about, again in this context, the authentic human being, you are talking about Jesus.

[00:11:01] Now the authentic faith or authentic Catholicism. Yeah, that’s important. That’s important. But it’s important because it converts us to holiness. It makes us more like God. It orients us to be like Jesus. Not just in virtue, but in being. Now we can never be, you know Jesus. ’cause Jesus is God, but at the resurrection.

[00:11:29] If we lived holy lives, we will be like Him. Scripture says that. This is not heresy. We won’t be as Him, but we will be like Him. Authentic, as we were intended to be. So the authentic faith, the authentic church, all that is important. But I feel for many people, it has become the point. The church has become the point.

[00:11:53] And if the church is the point, if the practice of the faith and my friends, I [00:12:00] have to tell you, I’m a very old school Catholic. When I was growing up I had zero exposure to crazy Catholicism. Zero. Zero. I was taught by old school nuns. The schools that I went to early in life, it wasn’t all nuns, but there were many of them.

[00:12:18] I old school nuns, I had old school priests the mass was Novus Ordo, but it was very, it was very solid. Smells, bells, and everything. Very solid. Chanting, everything. So, I’m not trying to devalue the importance of, quote unquote, the authentic faith. What I find disconcerting is that the practice of the authentic faith or the church has become the point for far too many Catholics far too many of my brothers and sisters, where we have just replaced holiness with orthodoxy, and as long as we’re orthodox.

[00:12:56] We’re a okay. That is not true. That is not true. How many pe, how many of Jesus contemporaries in the gospels were orthodox but not holy. And Jesus does not pat them on the back. He admonishes them.

Orthodoxy is Important, but…

[00:13:11] CA: You see where I’m going? Holiness is the point. Now. Orthodox, he’s important. It’s the means to the end, right? I don’t just mean orthodox belief, but I guess orthodox practice. So if, for instance, if you’re running in church, well that’s not heresy. It’s contrary to the [00:13:30] traditional practice of the faith.

[00:13:31] Traditionally you’re not supposed to run in church. It’s disrespectful, and so on. If you’re eating in church, et cetera, we would not, I mean that, orthodoxy has to do, pertains to belief not, generally not practices, but I’m just kind of broadening the meaning here. So orthodoxy in belief is important.

[00:13:50] I’m not saying it’s unimportant or that we shouldn’t have that in our understanding at all. Of course we should. It’s indispensable, as I say. But it is not the point. If orthodoxy does not lead to holiness, really doesn’t matter how orthodox a person is. Holiness is the point. Jesus Christ is the point.

[00:14:13] And that’s why so much is written about Jesus, about the cross. I mean, it’s unbelievable. Some of the tiniest details about the passion of Jesus Christ, just for instance, if we just look at the passion just that snapshot of his life, It’s incredible, the tiniest details the saints, including the early fathers, wrote about or preached about, the tiniest details, because all of it is so important.

[00:14:39] Again, going back to what I said earlier, he subjected himself to the fruits of sin by suffering for us, but he’s the authentic man outside of sin. He didn’t have to do that. He surrendered himself to it. It’s interesting, in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus says that, you [00:15:00] know, the time is coming, or the time is here, when the Son of Man is going to be handed over to sinners.

[00:15:07] Well, everybody’s a sinner. Everybody’s a sinner, right? But what was He talking about? He was talking principally about the pagans, right? Traditionally, when someone said a sinner, that, in His time, that’s really what they were talking about, people outside of Judaism.

[00:15:24] And how was He handed over to sinners? What is the bridge that makes that happen? Judas Iscariot. How does Judas Iscariot hand his Lord over to sinners? He betrays him with a kiss. Now, why is that important? A kiss is very tender. It’s an expression of love. So it’s, I guess, it’s a spiritual tenderness. It’s also a psychological tenderness.

[00:15:50] And it’s also a physical tenderness, what it feels like, right? Thank you for that. Judas perverts something so tender and so lovely by using a kiss to betray his Lord. So that his Lord, who is holiness itself, can be handed over, not just to people who commit sins, which is everybody, but to hand him over to capital S sinners.

[00:16:18] Judas, through that kiss, was the bridge.

[00:16:21] So it’s through something that’s tender that Judas surrenders his master. Who is holiness itself, who is the [00:16:30] authentic man, surrenders his master to the realm of perversion and distortion. It’s through the tenderness of a kiss that he surrenders perfection and beauty to ugliness and corruption. In the form of, capital S, sinners.

[00:16:50] See? Now why does that come to bear here? Because we often do the same thing. When the Son of Man is handed over to sinners, it means we are receiving communion. Every time we receive communion, the Son of Man is handed over to sinners. And He surrenders Himself to that. He surrenders Himself to that. Now, we’re not capital S sinners, we’re not the pagans, but you get what I’m saying.

[00:17:14] He surrenders Himself to that.

[00:17:16] When the Son of Man was handed over to sinners, He wasn’t just handed over to them physically. He, the authentic man, was handed over to the realm of sin. He surrendered Himself to that. He surrendered himself to the realm of sin, the beating, the drawing of his blood, the suffering and the dying. He surrendered himself to that.

[00:17:35] Nowhere, now this my friends is, this, I’ll say it symbolizes the whole of reality. We see the whole of reality even in just Gethsemane, if that’s the only mystery we look at. We see the whole of reality in Gethsemane. The apostles are sleeping. Because they could not keep their eyes open. Isn’t that you and me and everybody else?[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Spiritually sleeping. Morally sleeping. Because no matter how hard we try, some people just don’t even try, but no matter how hard we try, sometimes we just cannot keep our eyes open. We cannot be diligent in the practice of the faith.

[00:18:16] We see, I won’t go through it again, but the betrayal of Christ. Reality is in there. The handing over of Jesus to sinners. All of reality is in there. We see the failure of the apostles. That’s us. We see the failure of Judas. That is us. We see the weight of sin in the suffering of Jesus at Gethsemane.

[00:18:38] We see the weight of it. And Jesus is the only one who does not collapse to it. He’s strained. He’s under strain by it. But the Apostles fall to the weight of the realm of sin, I’ll put it that way. The Apostles do Judas does, the people who came to arrest Jesus did. Only Jesus stood tall and stood firm.

[00:19:03] That despite his suffering, he was keeping watch. He was at prayer, and he was suffering well. Bringing this back, what does this have to do with what is the point, right? The point is not the church, so what is it? The point is holiness, and holiness rises above the realm of fallen reality. It rises above the realm of fallen reality.[00:19:30]

[00:19:30] Let me repeat. Holiness is nothing less than that disposition which rises above the realm of all of fallen reality. When you look at holiness like that, How tiny does the church seem now? How tiny is the church when you look at what the how the enormity of the actual objective, holiness, or Jesus Christ?

[00:20:00] I personally do not do this to teach people the authentic faith. Because I think by and large too, quote unquote authentic, sometimes becomes subjective, not objective. I do, it’s not that I don’t think the authentic faith is important, it’s not that I don’t think that there are generations, you know, after me, that came after me, who are missing some of the beauties of the lived experience of the faith, but that is also not to say that they’re not getting what is beautiful about living the faith, holiness.

[00:20:33] They may not be aware of all of the traditional practices that you or I am familiar with. They may not, I mean, I’ve run into people. Who are regular mass goers. Younger people, considerably younger than I am. Younger people go to mass they’re pretty genuine, they’re pretty genuine, enthusiastic about the gospel.

[00:20:55] Have never heard of the brown scapular. Can you believe that? They have never heard of the [00:21:00] brown scapular. Hey, they’re at a loss. It’s true. There are generations that are at a loss. Because, through the 70s and 80s and 90s, the faith experience, not the faith itself, but the faith experience was kind of simplified, layer by layer, stripped down.

[00:21:19] Yeah, I get that. But you know what? For those Catholics, in the younger generations, Who may be missing out on a lot of the beauties of the lived Catholic experience, the culture of the lived experience. Like some of the devotions, some of the practices. When I, when during the consecration, I was taught that when the priest elevates the host, you strike your breast and you say, my Lord and my God, when he elevates the chalice, you strike your breast and you say, my Jesus mercy.

[00:21:49] Most Catholics, my age of my generation were not taught that many were most were not. That was an old custom when it was taught to me, but it was still taught. It was still taught in my school. Younger generations have probably never heard of that at all. But those younger generations who are missing out, are they holy?

[00:22:12] Are they holy? Are they pursuing holiness? Are they making advancements in holiness? Aha! Isn’t that the whole point? True, it sucks for them that they’re missing out. On some of the things that are beautiful about the culture of the lived experience, as I say. But [00:22:30] if they’re holy, and growing in holiness, if they’re oriented towards sainthood, well, isn’t that the whole point?

[00:22:39] If they love Jesus Christ, and I mean truly love Him, isn’t that the whole point? Because the more we love Jesus, the more we become like Him. Isn’t that the whole point? So why this hyper emphasis on living the authentic Catholic faith? I don’t, I’m not, I don’t mean orthodox, because orthodoxy is indispensable.

[00:23:01] But often when we talk about the authentic Catholic faith, my friends, most people who say that, they are not talking strictly about orthodoxy. They’re talking about customs of the cult, things that I do and love. But it is not doctrine. And that’s really what they’re talking about. They’re talking about superficial things, more often than not.

[00:23:22] At least in my experience with people who go on and on about the authentic Catholic faith. They’re talking mostly about superficial things. They are talking about Orthodoxy and Doctrine, and that’s great. But also, largely, they talk about superficial things. As if you don’t do these things, you’re not authentically Catholic.

[00:23:45] Ridiculous.

Cult of Catholic Personalities

[00:23:46] CA: I want to say something. I’m going to talk about the cult of Catholic personalities, and then I’m going to talk about Conservative and liberal in Catholicism. [00:24:00] The cult of Catholic personalities. Let’s talk about it. I don’t even know if I should mention this, but Michael Voris of Church Militant resigned I don’t know, a week ago.

[00:24:09] I guess it was a bombshell for some people. It had absolutely zero effect on me. Bishop Strickland was removed from his post. I still don’t like the politics of it.

[00:24:21] But it had absolutely zero effect on me. It seems, now, we don’t know how much of this is rumor and how much of it is true. I think most of this news is rumor. That the Pope has stripped Cardinal Burke of his Vatican apartment and his salary out of concerns that, I guess he’s divisive.

[00:24:43] I like Cardinal Burke, but that has, but this episode has zero effect on me, none, absolutely none. There were people who were scandalized to hear the things that Father Altman had to say. I didn’t like what he had to say, but, or, let me not get into it. If you want to know my opinions about Father Altman, you’ll just have to ask me personally.

[00:25:09] I just don’t want to get into it now. There were people who were charged by what he said. There were people who were scandalized by what he said. But there were a lot of people who were scandalized and outraged when he was disciplined. I don’t remember now what happened. I don’t think he was removed from priesthood.

[00:25:26] I think he was just removed from a pastoral assignment. [00:25:30] I don’t remember. But anyway, people were shocked. Horrified about that. I don’t remember. Now, I wasn’t a fan of Father Altman anyway, but it had no effect on me at all. Why? Because I’m not, and many of you, I’m sure, are not members of what I call the Catholic cult of personalities, or the cult of Catholic personalities.

[00:25:54] To me, all of these men that I’ve mentioned and others, they’re just people. Cardinal Burke, Bishop Strickland. Archbishop Cordelioni, who I like very much you name it, they’re just priests to me. They’re just priests. They’re other believers. I don’t see them as equals. Personally, I see them as higher than me.

[00:26:21] As a priest, as a bishop, as a cardinal, yes, but when you strip all that away, I just see them as other believers who happen to be higher than me in the ranks, right? I acknowledge that, but what I see first is what’s fundamentally true. They’re just other believers. They’re not cultural gods for me, and I’m sure that’s true for many of you, right?

[00:26:47] I’m not part of the cult of Catholic personalities. Why? Because for a lot of people,

[00:26:55] Pope Francis is the church. Not just people on the left, but people on the [00:27:00] right. Pope Francis is the church, and so what Pope Francis is doing is really injuring my faith, or it’s really worrying me, or whatever the effect is. And people on the left, Pope Francis is the church, and therefore rah, sis, boom, bah, Pope Francis can do no wrong.

[00:27:16] Because Pope Francis is the church. The funny thing is I run into a lot of Pope Francis fanatics, and almost none of them actually go to church. They love the Pope, man. They love the Pope, but they don’t love him enough to reflect his practice of the faith. They just love him as a political figure. But Pope Francis is not the church.

[00:27:41] Cardinal Burke is not the church. Bishop Strickland is not the church. Bishop this one and Father that one. They are not the church. Michael Voris is not the church. Doctor Whoever is not the church, insert any doctor you please, who’s like, you know, like a celebrity in the Catholic world, they are not the church.

[00:28:03] And, quote unquote, the church is not even the point, my friends. The church isn’t even the point. Not only are these men, or women if, you know, if you have some female persons in mind, none of these people are the church. So why should I care? And the church isn’t even the point. Holiness is. So, doubly, why should I [00:28:30] care?

[00:28:30] They’re rising, they’re falling, where they’re going, what they’re wearing, what they just said, what is their reaction to this news headline. Why should I care? They are not the church. And the church isn’t even the point. Holiness is the point. Holiness is the point. The point. There are people who send me links all the time, and they’re very much in the cult of Catholic personalities.

[00:28:59] Links to articles, they’re very, they’re, Bishop Barron is another one I’ll mention, who I like. He is not the church. So they send me anti Bishop Barron stuff. They send me, it was so funny. Again, I really shouldn’t mention it, because now it becomes a little slanderous, but Someone sent me a link to, to a video produced by one of these people who, you know, one of these Catholic celebrity types.

[00:29:26] And this Catholic celebrity type kind of fell from grace and the person didn’t know it. It’s like, do you realize what you just sent me? It was very sad. But anyway, some people, you know, they’re sending me this stuff all the time. Dr. This, Bishop that. And, you know, so and so from Independent Catholic Media.

[00:29:49] And some of these videos, for instance, that they send, because sometimes it’s written stuff and some of them are videos. Some of these videos, some of the articles are very long. And some of the videos are like 25 minutes long. [00:30:00] Sometimes they’re 7 or 8 minutes. Sometimes they’re, you know, 45 minutes. But they’re very long, usually.

[00:30:05] Finally, I said to one or two of them separately, not like as a group. I said, you know, this is really long and If you watch as many of these as you send me, I have to ask you, you’re at least watching about 40 minutes worth of videos a week, at the very least. At the very least, but it’s easily got to be over an hour, but let’s be generous.

[00:30:28] Just 40 minutes, right? When was the last time you sat down to read scripture for 40 minutes? When was the last time you spent 15 minutes reading and meditating on the scriptures? Have you ever done that? From both of them, and again, separately, I received no response, or I, from one of them I received an eye roll, which is the same as a response, the same as no response, or you might read the eye roll as, I don’t read scripture, but I can’t tell you that.

[00:30:58] Whoever perverts the sayings of the Lord for his own desires, and says that there is neither resurrection nor death, Such a one is the firstborn of Satan. Let us therefore leave the foolishness and the false teaching of the crowd and turn back to the Word. Turn back to the Word. The cult of Catholic personalities has to come to an end because these people are becoming like new Jesuses.

[00:31:22] They’re becoming the false prophets of our time. They are bec They have rallied people into a frenzy against the [00:31:30] Synod. I think the idea of the Synod is silly, but that’s a matter of governance and management. Who cares? If that’s the way the Pope wants to do things, who cares? I think it’s silly, but who cares?

[00:31:43] That’s the way he does things. There are things that I do that everybody else would find silly. Who cares? It’s just the way I do things. But there were people, you would swear there was about to be another Vatican Council. There were people in such a stir over this. And I blame independent Catholic media.

[00:32:02] In looking for news updates about Catholic Burke, On, on X, I’m running into a lot of these Catholic celebrities and one after the other to me are just totally ridiculous people. Totally ridiculous people. And I’m reading what they’re writing and I’m thinking to myself, My goodness, does this person’s followers not realize how much of a fraud he is?

[00:32:27] They obviously don’t realize it. You don’t know a charlatan when you see one? My goodness, this is the Pied Piper playing the flute and you’re just marching right along. Unbelievable. Like, you really don’t see this? They don’t see it. There are a lot of people, a lot of such people in independent Catholic media who are stirring the masses into a frenzy over the Synod.

[00:32:51] Why? What happened with the Synod? I understand it’s ongoing. There’s going to be another one in a year. But up to now, what has happened so far? Zero. Nothing. [00:33:00] No doctrine has been changed. Not a shocker. We’re not ordaining women. Not a shocker. What has been changed? They’ll point out certain loosey goosey things that are being said or written in the synod documents to which I say, So what?

[00:33:19] Is it a shock to you? Is it a shock to you that this exists in the church? Because it has always existed in the church. Loosey goosey ridiculousness has always existed in the church. This shocks you? That it’s surfaced in the Synod. It surfaces in every church mechanism. The reason why they can’t relax is because the Catholic celebrities that they follow or listen to have got them worked up into a frenzy with completely deceptive rhetoric, bad reporting, selective reporting.

[00:33:59] They do it on the left in the secular world and they do it on the right in the Catholic world. And they’ve completely duped their followers and readers and viewers. Why? Because of the cult of Catholic personalities. Because when you follow these celebrities, you will swallow everything that they feed you.

[00:34:20] And they know that as long as they can stir you into a frenzy, you’ll keep the clicks coming, you’ll keep the monetary support coming, ad revenue will continue. [00:34:30] And they can continue to line their pockets. Does it sound familiar? They do the exact same thing in the secular media. Why do why doesn’t it shock or concern people that same kind of deception and con game exists very strongly in the Catholic world?

[00:34:49] The cult of Catholic personalities is real. I’m gonna tell you about myself, and I don’t mean to hold this as, this is how you all have to be. But I’m gonna tell you how I am. And you decide for yourself if you want to do similarly. If you want to do similarly, yeah, that, that’s good English. That’s talking good English.

[00:35:09] If you want to do similarly to this, you decide. I like Bishop Barron. But he’s not a celebrity to me. Nothing that happens to him or that he does or says will ever shock me. It’s of no consequence to me. Bishop Barron Strickland. I don’t see him as like some big traditionalist.

[00:35:30] And in a second we’re going to get to traditional, conservative, and liberal in just a second. I’m just wrapping up this segment. I don’t see Strickland as like some big quote unquote traditionalist hero. I literally never knew that he was known that way until he was removed from his diocese. And I, and only then I just became aware of it because that’s what people were saying.

[00:35:51] But I never saw him that way. Pretty staunch conservative, yes, conservative in the Catholic sense, which I’ll get to. I didn’t see him as like a [00:36:00] traditionalist or a quote unquote radical traditionalist, or I just didn’t, maybe he was and I just didn’t see it, I, I don’t know. But the things that I saw him post on X, and of course it’s X so you don’t see everything, but the things that I saw him post on X, and sometimes I would go to his feed to scroll through his feet a little bit.

[00:36:18] I never saw anything that I thought was like, Wow, ooh, you really shouldn’t say that. Except that one time that he said about the Pope that I thought he shouldn’t say. But anyway. I just like him because I thought he’s a good priest. Who really holds the line. Of you know, orthodox faith.

[00:36:34] And so on. But, you know, the point I’m trying to make is there are people in the church who I really like. There are people who are in like the Catholic, you know, sphere. The blogosphere, the whatever, video sphere, I don’t know. Catholic communicators who I like and there are many who I think are just like, my goodness, turn off the microphone.

[00:36:51] Oh God, turn off the camera. Oh, please don’t write another word. And frankly, the Pope is one of them. Please don’t. Holy father, never step in front of a microphone again, please. I’m begging you. But that’s beside the point. But of all of these people that I like, they’re just people to me. They’re not celebrities.

[00:37:08] And no matter what happens to them, good, bad, Or anything in between. It’s not really going to affect me. Why? Because I’m going to tell you where my eyes, my mind, and my heart are focused. Jesus Christ, number one. The saints, number two. That’s it. That’s it. That’s literally it. Jesus Christ, number [00:37:30] one.

[00:37:30] The saints, number two. That’s where my focus, attention, and affection is. Jesus Christ and the saints. I don’t have stars in my eyes for anybody in Catholic celebrity. Not a, not even stardust, not even a speck of stardust in my eyes. I have stars in my eyes for Jesus Christ, and I have stars in my eyes for the saints.

[00:37:53] And that is it. That’s literally it. And this is how I make every effort, sometimes feeble, sometimes less feeble, to grow in holiness by staying focused on Jesus. The Orthodox practice of the faith is a means to that end, holiness. For instance, the sacramental life. It’s a means to that end. The interior life, prayer, devotions, stuff like that.

[00:38:22] It’s a means to the end. It’s important. I’m not saying it’s unimportant. But where everyone else is so focused on the authentic Catholic faith, I’m only focused on becoming a saint. The authentic Catholic faith, or the Catholic faith, the orthodox Catholic faith, is part of that. It’s part of that. But it’s not the object.

[00:38:42] It’s the means. I’m only focused on being a saint. And that’s what I do here, with all my online stuff. I’m not trying to teach you the authentic Catholic faith because I think that’s a cheap trick. It’s a cheap trick. I want to help to teach you how to be holy. [00:39:00] That’s all I’m doing. I’m trying to help God build saints.

[00:39:04] Now, I’m not teaching you, like, as the expert in holiness. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not teaching you as the expert in holiness. I’m teaching you as someone with a lot of experience in the lived faith. A lot of knowledge, maybe a little wisdom, and I’m trying to share that with you, that’s it. I’m trying to help you, I’m trying to teach you how to be holy, based on what I know in my own efforts.

[00:39:24] And in my own efforts, I rise and I fall, just like everyone else. I’m just trying to share with you what I know, that’s it. And let me tell you, I may say, that’s it, but it’s a lot more important and a lot more special than someone who’s trying to teach you the authentic Catholic faith. Because a lot of people who have learned the authentic Catholic faith from some of these Catholic celebrities, you know what they have unlearned?

Conservative and Liberal

[00:39:47] CA: Holiness. All right, conservative and liberal. I hate these words. I hate them. I hate them. They’re necessary, but I hate them. I hate them because they’re secular words. And I am first and foremost, a Catholic. I’m not a Republican. I’m not a Democrat. I’m sure not a communist. First and foremost, I’m a Catholic and everything is subordinated to my faith.

[00:40:14] Everything. Everything is subordinated to my faith. What kind of a, I am conservative, right? I’m of a conservative disposition. But what kind of a conservative am I? I’m as conservative as the holy faith is. And I am [00:40:30] as liberal as the holy faith is. Ooh, what do I mean by that? Let’s set a foundation here.

[00:40:38] All things that are true are found in God. In political thought, in secular, I really should say in secular thought, but 99 percent of that is political, whether it’s, you know, explicit or not. In political thought, some truth exists on the right. Whether the right is Republicans in America or whatever the right wing is in various European countries or in Canada, I don’t know.

[00:41:04] But, the conservatives have some truth. Believe it or not, the liberals have some truth too. The Democrats in this case Dirty word these days, but The liberals slash Democrats have some truth, but in my opinion they have very little of it. And I’m talking about, you know, in terms of philosophy and ideology, liberals just as conservatives, they love their families, they believe in, you know, excellence in themselves and for their families.

[00:41:32] So they have a lot of truths, but I’m talking about in terms of philosophy, political philosophy, they have some truths. In my opinion, they just have very few of them, but they do have some. Everything that’s true. Is found in God. It is, it comes from God. It is so because God is. Whether it’s truth that’s found on the right or it’s truth that’s found on the left.

[00:41:58] Or in the left. I don’t know how you would phrase [00:42:00] that. Anyhow. I’ll give you an example of how, you know, how conservative are you. I’m as conservative as the Catholic faith is. How liberal are you? I’m as liberal as the Catholic faith is. Let me explain. Generally, the Catholic faith is always quote unquote conservative.

[00:42:16] Why? Because the Catholic faith is the holy faith. It is holy. And the world is not. So the world, wherever its thinking is, whatever the zeitgeist is, whatever the popular opinion is, The world is usually to the left of the Catholic faith. The world is usually to the left of the Catholic faith. So compared to the world, the Catholic faith is conservative.

[00:42:43] But the Catholic faith is not conservatism. The Catholic faith is not conservatism, but compared to the world, which is fallen and wicked, et cetera, et cetera, the holy faith is conservative. I could talk for an hour about that, but I don’t want to bore you, but I really could talk at least for an hour just about what I just said, but anyway.

[00:43:04] So the world is always to the left of the church, but the church is not, the church slash faith is not conservatism, but by comparison to the world, it’s conservative. There are some things in in, Church, or in Catholic thought, or in Catholic philosophy, rooted in Catholic doctrine and teaching, that in the secular world is conservative.

[00:43:28] For instance, [00:43:30] every life is sacred, and abortion is wrong. Okay. Then there are some things that to the secular world are very, might be considered very liberal. You shouldn’t execute a murderer. If it’s possible to put him in prison permanently, In order to protect the public, if that is a real possibility that can effectively be done, then you shouldn’t execute a murderer.

[00:43:56] Now that comes off as a more liberal thought, a liberal idea. I’ll give you another example. I’m as liberal as the holy faith is. I’ll give you another example. It’s very secular left, this idea that people have a right to work. That people have a right to work is a, I think that sounds very liberal, secular liberal.

[00:44:19] It almost sounds like communism, frankly, but, okay. So, and I don’t know that this is true, by the way. I should preface it that way. But the idea that everyone has a right to work, it is, it does sound like very secular liberal, secular left, but it also sounds very Catholic. Again, I’m not saying this is so.

[00:44:42] I’m saying it bears consideration. Do people have a natural right to work? Well, let’s look at it from a Catholic perspective, not a secular perspective. Is work part of life? Yes, it is. God told Adam to work before the fall. [00:45:00] So from, even from before the fall of man, God gave dignity to work. There’s dignity in work, even before the fall.

[00:45:11] Is work necessary for survival? Yes, it is. Well, after the fall it sure was. We know that. Do people have a natural right to live and to be? Well, that answer is yes. Well, if people have a natural right to life, and if work both has dignity from a divine perspective, and is necessary for survival from a natural perspective, then a right to life might equate to a right to work.

[00:45:41] If we need to work for our survival, eE economy, buying and spending has always been a part of human existence, at least since the fall. So if working and earning so that you can buy or sell is essential and indispensable to human exi to, to the, to living. To living right, to, if it’s indispensable to living a Catholic argument could be made that people have a right to work.

[00:46:09] They don’t have a right to just have money dumped on their laps for the rest of their life, but they, a Catholic argument could be made that people have a right to work. I don’t know, I’m really not a theologian, but from what I know of Catholic philosophy and theology, that’s kind of where my thinking is.

[00:46:27] As a political conservative, [00:46:30] that puts me off, this idea that I have a right to work, that puts me off as a political conservative, but I’m Catholic first. I’m Catholic first, and everything else is subordinated to that. A right, the idea that people have a right to work, it’s very liberal, I think. But from the church, from the perspective of the holy faith, it might be the truth.

[00:46:54] I don’t know that it is or that it isn’t, but it might be the truth. So how liberal are you? Only as liberal as the Catholic faith, as the holy faith. How conservative are you? Only as conservative as the holy faith. Because all truth is found in God. The Holy Faith is God’s revelation of reality. It’s not a revelation of some ideas.

[00:47:14] It’s a revelation of reality, the Holy Faith. So, there are going to be some truths on the left that will be very Catholic. Because all truth is found in God. And if there are truths that exist in the left, then it’s found in God. And if it’s found in God, it’s been revealed in Catholic teaching. Same thing with truths on the right.

[00:47:38] So what’s my beef with these terms, conservative or liberal? Let’s discuss. Conservative tends to hold on to what is. I’m really simplifying it, but you’ll be happy that I did. You don’t want me to get really deep into this. Conservatism tends to hold on to what is. Our traditions, our ideas.[00:48:00]

[00:48:00] Right? Liberalism tends to value less what is, and it looks to what could be. Okay? Conservatism holds on to what is. Liberalism looks toward what might be. It doesn’t tend to value what is. It’s willing to abandon what is to move on to what could be. That’s liberalism. Conservatism kind of holds the line.

[00:48:28] Okay? Which I like very much. Because I’m very much someone who does not like things to change. Conservatism holds the line. Although modern conservatism, which is why modern, which is why secular thought is so dangerous. Modern conservatism is now starting to move the line. But anyway, conservatism generally, classically, it holds the line.

[00:48:51] Liberalism moves the line. It moves the goalposts. Now, conservatism holds the line because it’s assumed that the line is already where it ought to be. Right? Family is good. Parents should be married. You have to work to earn your keep. You shouldn’t be handed anything. You have to work for everything.

[00:49:18] Small government, and so on. Conservatism holds the line because the line is, because it believes that the line is already where it ought to be. Liberalism believes that the line would be better somewhere else. Let me give you an [00:49:30] example there. Women should be allowed to vote. Believe it or not, that was a liberal principle.

[00:49:36] Slavery was kind of all over the place. I can’t say that was really a liberal principle. It could be argued. It was really a conservative principle. Republicanism, one of, one of the pillars of the Republican party when it was started was to abolish slavery. That was not a liberal principle, that was a conservative one.

[00:49:51] But anyway, so anyway, liberalism believes the line, we’re better somewhere else, right? We should do more to help poor families. Now, sometimes that goes too far, but the principle itself is a good one, right? Liberalism believes the line would be better somewhere else. Conservatism believes in holding the line because the line is already where it should be.

[00:50:16] So, how do we understand these concepts in Catholicism? In the Catholic experience, how do we understand these concepts? Conservatism in Catholicism is basically orthodoxy. It’s orthodoxy. It is not traditionalism. Let me repeat that. Conservatism in the Catholic experience is not traditionalism. It may be capital T traditionalism adherence to sacred tradition, but it is not lowercase t traditionalism, which mainly is rooted in customs.

[00:50:51] So, people who call themselves traditionalists, they are conservative, but conservatism is not traditionalism. Conservatism in Catholicism is [00:51:00] merely orthodoxy. What’s the difference? Why will I not call it traditionalism? Because traditionalism, the way it’s used today, lowercase t, traditionalism, really is a secular concept.

[00:51:14] It’s about keeping the line where it is, because we just take for granted that it’s already where it needs to be. Well, sometimes, maybe even oftentimes, that is true, and sometimes it is not, but the line is where it needs to be. So, Conservatism in the faith experience really is orthodoxy. The line is exactly where it’s supposed to be.

[00:51:36] It is exactly where it’s supposed to be. But it may need some adjusting sometimes. I’ll explain that now. Liberalism, and this may shock you, liberalism in Catholicism is progressivism. I’ll repeat that for impact and because you might not believe what you just heard. Liberalism, the secular idea of liberalism in Catholicism is progressivism.

[00:52:04] It’s not secular progressivism. I mean true progressivism. It is not secular liberalism. Secular liberalism tends to abandon fundamentals. Liberal ideas In Catholicism, does not abandon fundamentals, it deepens them. Let me recap.

[00:52:27] When we say conservative in [00:52:30] the Catholic, I guess, in a Catholic setting, when we say conservative, generally we’re bringing a secular understanding of that word into the mix, and it does not belong. Because conservatism here is just orthodoxy. It is not traditionalism. I am not saying traditionalists, people who call themselves traditionalists, I am not saying they’re not conservative.

[00:52:52] What I’m saying is, the way we understand lowercase t, traditionalism, in the church culture today, is essentially a secular principle, a secular idea. It is not a Catholic one. The Catholic idea of what we, I guess, aspire to when we say conservative, the Catholic idea of that is orthodoxy. It’s just orthodoxy.

[00:53:18] It’s where the line is supposed to be. So what’s progressivism then? Progressivism is not an abandonment of fundamentals. That’s what progressivism is for secularists. In the church, progressivism Deepens the understanding of the revealed truth and attempts to better apply it to the lived experience of people.

[00:53:43] For the objective of growing in holiness, or to put another way, for the objective of rendering justice and mercy to people in, in, in need. They may be in need of food. They may be in need of pastoral care. They may [00:54:00] be in need, and this is all of us, of holiness. You understand? I’m not talking just about material needs, but also spiritual needs.

[00:54:07] For instance, much of what we know about the Trinity today is progressivism, compared to what Let’s say, St. Matthew knew about the Trinity, the writer of the Gospel. Compared to what St. Matthew knew about the Trinity, what we know is technically progressive. It doesn’t abandon what St. Matthew knew, but it’s deeper than, it’s probably deeper than what St.

[00:54:32] Matthew knew. Because that theology has had 2, 000 years of development. What we know Even what we know about the Eucharist. Now we don’t know what Jesus said to the Apostles that didn’t get written down. But if we just look at what was written down in the Gospels and in the writings, in the letters of Paul, or I guess throughout the New Testament, it appears that we probably know more about the Eucharist than even the Apostles did, if you only go by what we see in the Scriptures.

[00:55:01] I’m not saying that they were more ignorant than we are. I’m not saying that because I don’t know. I wasn’t there. But if you look at what we see in the Scriptures, the argument could be made that we know more about, theologically, more about the Eucharist than the Apostles did.

[00:55:17] That’s progressivism. It’s not an abandonment of the truth. It’s the truth progressing more deeply. That’s what progressivism is. That’s progressivism. Progressivism in [00:55:30] the secular world means just setting fire to what is, setting fire to what is true and inventing a new truth. That’s not what progressivism is in the church.

[00:55:39] So the reason I don’t like conservative and liberal, and sometimes I use them because sometimes it’s a necessary lever to pull, because it’s what people understand, but the reason I don’t like them is because they really don’t apply here. Is the Pope orthodox? I would say yes. Is he conservative? I would say that term does not apply here.

[00:55:56] The way, not the way we understand that word, because the way most of us understand it is very secularized. And it just doesn’t apply in a Catholic setting. So, to conclude,

[00:56:09] this whole conservative is not traditionalism thing might confuse some people. So to conclude, I want to wrap up that, that point. I feel like it might be a loose end. So conservatism is orthodoxy. It’s not traditionalism. Well, if traditionalism is secular conservatism, what’s the secular equivalent to orthodoxy?

[00:56:32] Well, there is none. There is no equivalent. Orthodoxy is, the truth is what it is and it will never change. That’s basically what, I’m simplifying, but that’s basically what it is. The truth in secular world changes all the time. They are conservative, widespread conservatives. Who believe things that conservatives only 20 years ago would have thought outrageous.

[00:56:57] Truth moves all the time. I think [00:57:00] secular conservatives believe orthodoxy is being a good conservative, being a good Republican. Well, okay, well, what is a good Republican? Because what that meant 30 years ago is different from what it means now. People thought Donald Trump was a good conservative. I don’t think he was a good conservative.

[00:57:17] You know who I thought was a good conservative? Ronald Reagan. You’re not gonna tell me Donald Trump was Ronald Reagan, are you? Shockingly, some people do, which I just cannot believe.

[00:57:26] Okay, wow, holy cow, there has never been another Ronald Reagan. And certainly Donald Trump is not. George Bush was not. Okay, anyway, off topic. There is no orthodoxy in the secular world. So the closest we can do is just call it all conservatism. But in the Catholic world, when we say conservatism, that word is a secular word.

[00:57:51] Because conservatism in the secular world is just holding the line.

[00:57:57] It’s just holding the line. We do have that hold the line in the church, but we call that orthodoxy. Well, why don’t we call it conservatism? Because sometimes the line has to be made deeper. And that, in the church, is progressivism. It is not liberalism, where we change the truth. It’s progressivism, making the truth deeper.

[00:58:19] Not building truth, that’s liberalism, but excavating truth, excavating it, where the truth is what it is, and we’re just diving, we’re just digging deeper into it. [00:58:30] I’ll call out those same examples, so that people don’t start calling me a radical liberal which is almost laughable that I’ve ever been called that, which I have been twice.

[00:58:39] Which, if you know me personally, you’d know how ridiculous that is. Anyway, what we know about the Eucharist today is quote unquote progressive compared to what St. Matthew and his contemporaries knew about the Eucharist. What we know about the Holy Trinity today is progressive compared to what they knew about it in the first century.

[00:58:59] None of this abandons truth because progressivism doesn’t abandon truth. It only deepens it. It doesn’t change it. So the reason why we can’t use the word conservative here is because, in the church, is because In secular conservatism, you don’t deepen the truth. You just hold the line. Because to do anything other than hold the line is considered liberalism.

[00:59:25] But from the perspective of the church and the holy faith, the truth is what it is, but there are truths that have to be dug out more deeply. So we don’t have technically conservatism here, that’s a secular idea. What we have in the church is orthodoxy and progressivism. I understand progressivism truly is a dirty word in the secular world.

[00:59:52] The way the secular world applies that word truly is dirty. I agree with you. But you know where they got that word from? From the Catholic [01:00:00] Church. Traditionally, and I mean going way back in church history, the idea of progressivism was not a dirty word. It was a noble one. I The idea that just the bare truth sometimes is not enough.

[01:00:16] Sometimes we have to go deeper and understand it better and apply it better. That was progressivism. It was not a dirty word. Secular liberals hijacked it and turned it into what we today understand when we hear the word progressive.

[01:00:33] So that’s conservatism. That’s conservatism and liberalism in the church. So just as I would say, you know, the word conservative or conservatism is a secular word. It doesn’t really belong in Catholicism. I will also say liberalism is a secular word that does not belong in Catholicism.

[01:00:55] In Catholicism, we have the truth and we have progression. There shouldn’t really be a left or a right. It translates to a left or a right in the secular world, but Good Catholicism, true Catholicism, there shouldn’t be a left or a right. There sadly is, yes, there is, but there really shouldn’t be. There should be orthodoxy and classical progressivism, deepening our understanding and application of the truth without changing it.

[01:01:27] That’s really, if we’re talking about the authentic faith, my [01:01:30] friends, I just handed it to you on a silver platter. Do with it what you wish.

[01:01:35] As I bring this show to a close, Wrong song. As I bring the show to a close, I want to thank you for joining me. If you’re catching this live, I want to remind you, this is a subscriber only show. It will not be available on demand throughout social media. You’ll have to get it on my website and you’ll have to subscribe in order to do that.

[01:01:54] Again, a reminder, visit me on catholicadventurer. com sign up for the newsletter, be notified when I schedule that show on gender. And you’ll also see in the menu bar on my website, catholicadventurer. com, you’ll see a link to become a subscriber, a paid subscriber. It’s five bucks a month. It’s dirt cheap.

[01:02:12] I’m starting to post subscriber only content today. There’s already one article there that’s for subscribers only. Now I’m going to start posting. Some podcasts and stuff and another article or two this week. Thank you for joining me. God bless you. God be with you all. Please say Hail Mary for my family.

[01:02:30] Please say Hail Mary for my family or even better. Include us in your rosary because we’re in need. God bless you all. God be with you. Bye bye.